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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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It all depends on who you ask!!:D I have been told that pork has become one of the safest meats out there in recent years. I am not sure if this is true or not, but I know that it is a whole lot safer than it was years ago. The days of cooking pork until it is gray and dry are over. I personally like my pork medium, and I found that, at least in major cities, people are opting for it this way also. Up in Wisconsin, where I am now, people still believe that any pork cooked under the point of being shoe leather is gross and unhealthful, so here I cook it well done, but then again this is the same clientele that wants me to cook salmon well done also!:mad:
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
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Suzanne
- Food Editor
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- Joined: May 2001
- Location: New York, NY
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The New York City Department of Health requires that pork be cooked to an internal temperature of 155 degrees F for a minimum of 15 seconds. So if your pink tenderloin has met that, it should be all right. Yes, pinkish pork can take some getting used to -- old taboos die hard -- but it can be just fine.
With all this ultra-lean pork nowadays, I cook it a little as possible to retain what little moisture it has. (Brining also helps a lot.) As a point of reference, my 1971 Joy of Cooking says to cook pork loin to 170 degrees. If I did that with today's supermarket pork, it would be shoe leather. :(
Co-Moderator, Cooking Questions
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
- Joined: March 2002
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Alton Brown's cookbook says 170 too.
Trichinae dies at 137. Which is not to say there aren't other baddies that need killing. I shoot for 145 usually in big pork cuts like a roast or the tenderloin. That's still pink in the center, but not very, more like a blush. About 150 in a chop, 165 in a ground pork product, like sausage or such. Remember, I'm cooking for me and my family so I don't have to follow legal requirements for a restaurant or public food service.
Phil
more than taste fine
me eat it all the time
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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
- Post Count: 3,399
Just remember that these are the same guidelines that say beef needs to be cooked to 150 minimum. That means no Rare, MR or Medium steaks, if you follow these rules.
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
- Post Count: 3,399
I believe that most states require ground beef to be cooked to 160 while whole cuts are 150.
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
- Post Count: 3,399
The problem with e. coli, in beef, comes from shoddy butchering practices at slaughterhouses. If the people in charge of gutting the cows, accidentally cut too deep they can puncture the digestive track of the cattle, exposing all the flesh to possible e. coli contamination.
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
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Peachcreek
- Restaurant Manager
- Joined: September 2001
- Location: Back at work
- Post Count: 857
Pork, you want that well, or extra well.
I still cook my ground beef medium at home but at work it is the 160F rule. I don't serve burgers so thats easy.
Heres one- I had a duck breast served to me medium rare and loved it. I served a slightly undercooked piece of chicken breast and about had a riot on my hands, the same kinda goes for pork around here, if its pink- its raw..old ways die hard. " Its not dry, thats' what the gravys for..."
What a relief! To find out after all these years that I'm not crazy. I'm just culinarily divergent...
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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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I still cook chicken until it is no longer pink. Chicken, in this country, is so full of Salamella that I just don't trust it!!! As for duck, it is pretty safe so I cook breasts to MR to Med. or at least I used to. Up here people only want their duck roasted, with nice crispy skin, so it gets fully cooked for the masses in Wisconsin.
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
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Suzanne
- Food Editor
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- Joined: May 2001
- Location: New York, NY
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An extreme at the low end of the temperature scale: When I tested a few recipes from a cookbook I was reviewing, one was Roast Chicken. The author stated that one should take the chicken out of the oven when it reaches 140ºF where the breast and leg meet; carryover would raise it 5º during resting. So I did. GAH!!!!!!! The breast was still fairly pink, but edible. The dark meat, however, was raw to my taste (and I eat almost every other meat rare, or at most MR). I only use really good chickens, so I'm not that concerned with salmonella. But undercooked chicken just doesn't have any flavor, and feels slimy.
We're really talking aoubt two different things here: 1) what's safe, and 2) what people will eat. With advances in how animals are raised, safe can be a lot lower temperature than it used to be; however, the cookbooks have not kept up with science (not even Alton Brown :eek: ). On the other hand, people don't necessarily know the science, so they go by "this is how we've always had it," and continue to torture themselves with unchewable, flavorless meat.
Co-Moderator, Cooking Questions
"Notorious stickler" -- The New York Times, January 4, 2004
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Pete
- Professional Chef
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- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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I don't think it is the cookbooks that are behind the times, I think it is the government. The government (ie health department) has temp. standards that I think are too high. I think cookbook, authors and publishers follow or exceed these guidelines to "cover their butts". I have heard many chefs, at demos, do the same thing saying that they like their meat at 135 but the government recommends it cooked to 160. That way they can't get sued!!
From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
http://www.onceachef.com/
- Joined: May 2001
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I have written about the theory and practice of meat cooking temperatures extensively in an
article I published last November. One very helpful reference was Chapter 3 of the
2001 Food Code published by the US Public Health Service division of the FDA. One of the interesting aspects of this publication is a chart that shows that a 10-minute rest at 140°F is as effective as 15 seconds at 155°F. (I have rendered the chart as a graph in my article.)
I usually pull my tenderloins from a 425°F oven when the internal temperature reaches 125°F. The surface temperature at this point is in excess of 155°F. It takes about 7 minutes of resting for the internal temperature to reach 140°F. When served, the meat is still slightly pink and very tender.