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Isomalt Caramelize!

#1
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10/17/05 at 2:49am
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Just a curious question. But at what point does Isomalt began to caramelize?
I know granulated sugar starts at 320F just curious about Isomalt. Can it be took to extremes like 380F with out turning into a glob of unuseable gook. 380 just sounds ridiculous in my book. I know it is pure sugar but it does have a caramelization point right? Advice anyone.
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#2
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10/18/05 at 4:42am
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Yes it does have a caramelization point, but I've never checked to see what the temp is. Most people don't use isomalt for this purpose, sugar works better.
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#3
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10/18/05 at 2:22pm
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Isomalt Caramelization

sucrechef
Do you have a site that I might be able to go to find out. This is just curosity on my part no reason for it.
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#4
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10/18/05 at 2:31pm
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#5
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10/18/05 at 5:24pm
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Isomalt Caramelization

Hey Ch. Have any ideas? Have not heard from you and Pan a lot lately miss chatting with you. Had a lot of interesting chats with you guys. I enjoyed it. So what do you think about this Isomalt deal?
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#6
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10/18/05 at 7:01pm
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Now that's odd :confused: I sent a PM to you yesterday or so I thought. Hmm I wonder what happened. Oh well, anyhoo, sorry to disagree with SC but the fact of the matter is you can't caramelize Isomalt chemically it just doesn't work that way. Isomalt is a Polyol (a sugar alcohol) while it shares a commonality with sucrose in it's texture and appearance and it is based on sucrose, that's where the similarity ends. It will not cook the same, taste the same or digest the same as regular sugar. Anytime you have a candy or item made with Isomalt that is caramelized, it was done with flavorings. So don't waste your time trying to brown it, t'aint gonna happen.

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#7
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10/19/05 at 1:01pm
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ditto CH. I just deleted. and you would not want to spend that kind of money for caramel.
We just ordered in isomalt. Erica, who did a couple of pieces at school 2 yrs. ago is familiar with isomalt. I guess she will show the old dog some new tricks. I had a difficult time paying the price though :eek:
I'm thinking of doing a gingerbread type village for our front window out of poured,cast and pulled sugar. I have happened upon a plastics place that does all sorts of fabrication in acrylic,lexan etc. They said the will build me a UV display box for cheap. They just built me 2 sugar warming surrounds out of 5/8" acrylic for 35 bucks. It's unbelievable. They have never had a walk-in before and drop everything when I arrive so they can show me their products and skills. Course I'm only catching maybe 6 out of 10 words :D
BTW CR T.acid is really cheap at Uster.
ps CR I usuallywon't post if I find info that disagrees with another post. Sure is nice to have CH around, eh
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#8
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10/19/05 at 3:39pm
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Isomalt Caramelization

You bet Pan. Can always count on good ol CH to come through eh. Well Ch, let me ask this question of you. If it will not caramelize then at what temp would you cook it to? And will it stay clear even at high temps? All this sugar chemistry is getting confusing guys, its easier just to boil it and pull it or pour it. But hey if you are a chef you have to understand your ingredients and how they interact with other ingredients. I am no chef but thats the way I see it.Hey CH, I am taking notes on your lectures here they are pretty good, ever thought about teaching?
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#9
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10/19/05 at 5:17pm
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You're too kind. I thought about teaching long ago and it still crosses my mind, but I am no Cape Chef!
I still prefer sugar and will deal with the hydroscopic issues of the sugar (pain though it might be!) I used Isomalt when it first came out and personally I did not care for it. I felt that it help temp too long and worked hotter than sugar, it was also harder to pull than sugar. Maybe it's improved since then, but I don't want to bother finding out.
Now rather than go the scientific route to answer your question, I am going straight to the horses mouth and let Albert Uster answer some use questions about Venuance Isomalt from his website.
Take four parts Venuance Crystals to one part water. Bring to a boil, stirring with a whisk. Clean pan sides with water. Continue boiling to 170ºC. Cool the pan in cold water.

For Venuance Cages:
Wait until the mass cools to a honey-like consistency. Dip the prongs of a fork into the mass. Lift high out of the pan and quickly spin the threads of Venuance back and forth. Begin with the circumference of the ladle, then horizontally and vertically over the ladle. Remove the excess threads that are hanging below the edge of the ladle using scissors. Carefully remove from the ladle.

For Casting Venuance:
Color: Powder color dissolved in a little water can be added once the boiling temperature is reached, then shaken under the boiled Venuance Pearls for a marbled effect. Gold and silver dust can also create very attractive marbling effects. Casting: Wait until the mass thickens a little, then pour slowly into the center of the forms used. The forms should be lightly oiled and placed either on aluminum foil or parchment paper. Allow to cool and remove the forms.

For Spun Venuance:
Wait until the mass cools to a honey-like consistency. Dip the Sugar Wand into the cooled mass. Lift out of the pan and wait until there is a steady flow. Slowly draw the hand through the strands, pulling and collecting the threads until a ball is formed.


Hope this helps.

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#10
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10/19/05 at 5:51pm
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The isomalt we use here, straight out of the box, gets un-cerimoniously dumped into a pan, heated until disolved and either poured onto a sil-pat and worked just like pulled sugar, or cast, same as sugar. No need to check temps, it's done when the crystals dissolve. I like to put my colours in after the foaming stops, same as with the calcium carbonate. Isomalt is crystal clear when cast properly and looks great when combined with almond nougat, or chocolate; and because it's so clear, you can shove a photocopy of a corporte logo or fancy script under it, and pipe out the image with tempered chocolate....
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#11
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10/20/05 at 3:04am
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So it seems that most people do not use it because of the costs, I see. To be honest achieveing a clear look with granulated sugar is very easy I do not have any trouble getting it clear and no impurities in it either. I personally do not think the costs is worth the pain. Sugar in the sugar alcohol family is quite interesting. You guys tell me more. Fascinating stuff. Oh, and CH you are quite welcome. You would be good at teaching though. I am learning quite a bit just from your posts. Hope you don't mind if I print out some of your posts for future reference?
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#12
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10/20/05 at 3:32pm
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Hey Pan, CH this has nothing to do with Isomalt. But I posted a recipe request in one of the forums and have not gotten an answer yet I hope one of you can help me. Do you or Pan know a recipe for moulding sugar?
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#13
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10/21/05 at 1:47pm
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What exactly is "moulding sugar"? What is it that you want to do with it? There might be a different name that we are familiar with.

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#14
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10/21/05 at 2:03pm
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I don't know CH. I saw it mentioned in an article by Martin Chiffers on The Pastry Consultancy Forum. He did not mention how to make it, at least if he did I did not notice it. I don't know maybe I was seeing things it happens when you get my age.
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#15
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10/27/05 at 7:06pm
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Ewald Notter's book says to place 50g tartaric acid into 50g boiling water. I have done this twice and both times it crystalized after cooling. Is this what is supposed to happen and then it is reheated each time you want to use it? Does anyone know?
thanks
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#16
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10/28/05 at 3:02am
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What exactly is recrystallizing on you? I am asssuming it is your sugar that is recrystallizing on you? Most boiled sugar recipes call for a one to one mixture of tartaric acid. Mixed together and put in a eyedropper bottle.You have to use this stuff carefully. I have never used it. I use cream of tartar. I do not know how much 50 grams is and I sure am not questioning the great Ewald Notters methods. But it sounds to me like the boiling water is the problem. You want it warm but I don't think it has to be boiled. CH if you are lurking you would proably know better than anybody since you are familiar with Ewalds recipes and methods.Help this man out.
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#17
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10/28/05 at 3:58pm
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It sounds to me like you perhaps didn't allow the tartaric acid crstals to completely dissolve. You should be using powderized tartaric acid crystals. Allow it to cool in the bottle. It should also be a pipette bottle that's rather small this will also to help inhibit recrystallization. The recipe itself is fine.

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#18
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10/30/05 at 5:36pm
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I boiled the water for several minutes and added the TA. It dissolved, I let it go for a few minutes and then both times it has recrystalized when cooled. I went ahead and put some in the dropper bottle. When it gets warm it dissolves. I think I will nuke it when needed and then use it. The bottle was clean prior to use. Thanks for you help.
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#19
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11/6/05 at 6:49pm
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carmelizing Isomalt

Isomalt will carmelize. I use it carmelized often for cages and spun. I just pour it dry into a pan an cook it just like dry sugar over a medium flame. It melts and after a while- 10 to 15 minutes it will begin to color, be careful because it goes from golden to black quickly. It can be poured, spun, or drizzled to make garnishes etc. Another neat thing is you can pour it out and let it cool, then grind it up in a robo coupe until it is like sugar grains. Take a simple stencil like a triangle or long leaf and lay it on a silpat on a sheet pan, spread the ground isomalt in it. Remove the stencil and make as many shapes that you want. Put the pan in the oven at 350 degrees for about 8 to 10 minutes until the grains melt. Take it out and remove the shapes while hot and bend for an interesting garnish. Left over Isomalt can be remelted over and over without crystalizing so there is very little waste.

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#20
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11/7/05 at 3:33pm
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OK, I will go along with that if you are putting it into the pan with no water.CH what do you think?
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#21
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11/7/05 at 4:21pm
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PMama
I'm curious about which type of isomalt your using. I saw your post this morning and got excited. Our isomalt needs to have a 25% dilution. I put a small amount, dry,in a pan (not copper or stainless) and let er rip. No luck. I mean, I was ready. I baby sat it, for you said the window was small. Had an ice bath and everything.
That's the reason for asking what brand you use. I'll switch.
BTW I've heard this before. I know it didn't work when isomalt first came out.
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#22
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11/7/05 at 4:50pm
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Pan its got to be a different type Isomalt. You know I have those 2 little tubs of Isomalt but there is no way I will use it for an experiment. That stuff is like gold as far as I am concerned. Pan, you know my plan for that.
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#23
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11/7/05 at 6:56pm
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isomalt

Hi, I have used Decomalt which is quite a small grain and also one just labeled Isomalt in a large or small grain. I have also carmelized it with just a little water enough to make it like a slightly wet sand. It does take a while for the isomalt to begin to melt dry, 30 to 40 minutes and it takes longer than sugar to melt all the way, so you have to be patient. I keep the melted-cooled isomalt in small airtight containers and remelt it when I need it.

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#24
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11/8/05 at 2:43am
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Well Pan I guess that answers our question. What is Decomalt never heard of it. Is it a polyol?
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#25
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11/8/05 at 6:25am
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decomalt

here is information on Decomalt, it is just a brand name of Isomalt check out http://www.gourmandinc.com/decomaltbk.htm

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#26
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11/8/05 at 7:03am
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PastryMama,
Thanks. I just got some of that in. CR this is what you have. I did try again this morning with the isomalt we were using, adding a little h20. It did take a while, but it worked. I used aluminum yesterday and copper today. I'm stoked!
Pastrymama, Thanks again.

Karmoe,
Just a thought on your acid. I don't have trouble dissolving. I do however measure the water after boil. If your boiling a measured amount you will lose measure in evaporation which may lead to the mixture being supersaturated on the acid side.
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#27
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11/8/05 at 2:16pm
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Pan I got a 1/2 ounce medicine bottle with an eyedropper. Brand new out of the drug store. How much would you mix for a 1/2 ounce bottle? When they talk equal parts of something they confuse me with that. Acid that is. Your stoked Pan. I don't believe it either. Guess we were all kind of off base. Not wrong! Just a little off.
Thanks CR
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#28
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11/8/05 at 3:18pm
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CR,
You will want to always measure, weight. Do you have a gram or small weight digital scale?
Weigh up equal amounts. ½ oz. To a ½ oz.
Only measure volume when you see fluid ounce
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#29
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11/8/05 at 4:21pm
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No, but I will get one this weekend. Thanks Pan for that tip on weight and volume I had not thought about like that. Do all scales have grams or just a select few? And one more thing. Should I boil the water before I add it to the acid? Sorry for all the questions don't mean to annoy you.
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#30
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11/8/05 at 4:42pm
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that is what CT is for. yes, boil, then measure and add to acid. keep it moving till desolved. I think you have powdered crystals, they're better to disolve.
Small batch 18 oz. sugar
9 oz. water
4 oz. glucose
10 drops acid
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