Mother Sauces & Beurre Blanc

#1

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6/7/06 at 8:30am

GreaseChef
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Unemployment is a strange thing, can't say that I really enjoy it all that much. I have no purpose, enough money for cigars, but not enough money for Scotch or B&B. I also have plenty of time to think...

I was trying to name the five mother sauces off the top of my head, I kept getting six... So, I looked in my Larousse Gastronomique, first English edition, badly translated. They had a huge section on sauces, but never came right out and put all of the mother sauces together in one spot.

So, I checked a few other books and couldn't get a definitive answer.

Finally I find this at http://www.whatscookingamerica.net/H...uceHistory.htm

Sounds right, but where does Beurre Blanc (and derivatives) fit in? Isn't Beurre Blanc a mother sauce?

Then I find this at http://www.911cheferic.com/main/drecipe.asp?recipe=299

So my question is, "Is Beurre Blanc a mother sauce, or a variation of Béarnaise?"

Without eggs, I just don't see it as a Béarnaise at all.

Will work for a bed and shower... I want to find a place to live that isn't Vermont. I am interested in seeing a few sites.

#2

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6/7/06 at 9:00am

GreaseChef
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BTW...

I came up with 5 different mother sauces in my head. I thought that Béarnaise was a variation of Hollandaise (Just a different acid). I would also NOT say that Brown (espagnole) was with Demi.

My five would have been.

1 - Hollandaise
2 - Demi
3 - Brown - Espagnole
4 - Red
5 - Veloute

+ Beurre Blanc

Will work for a bed and shower... I want to find a place to live that isn't Vermont. I am interested in seeing a few sites.

#3

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6/7/06 at 9:15am

chrose
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I believe that "beurre Blanc" is kind of like a Constitutional Amendment, it's not part of the original 5 but has been adopted and added because it meets that basic requirements of a Mother Sauce.

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#4

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6/7/06 at 9:25am

brewchef
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bechamel and tomato would be the other ones.

#5

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6/7/06 at 10:23am

newbiecook
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Sauces

GreaseChef
How can you say Espangole and Demi are seperate sauces when you need Espangole to make a proper demi...well unless you make it from powder

#6

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6/7/06 at 10:44am

GreaseChef
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Never used a powder...

The bulk of my experience has been Italian, not French. I've not been to culinary school, so if I haven't done it at work, I might not know it at all.

That said, I was thinking demi as I have done it when I did work in a French place, roasting then boiling veal bones, skimming and reducing. As for Espagnole, I was thinking more along the lines of using pan drippings.

The Beurre Blanc thing had me in a quandry as to where it fit in. Add a shakey foundation in French food, and you've got some room for errors. :suprise:

Will work for a bed and shower... I want to find a place to live that isn't Vermont. I am interested in seeing a few sites.

#7

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6/7/06 at 10:51am

Nentony
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Where's Chef Kaiser when you need him?

Tony

#8

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6/7/06 at 11:29am

Mikeb
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Debating about which sauces are 'mother' sauces is pointless. The 5 mother sauces ARE hollandaise, tomato, béchamel, espagnole and velouté. Why? Because someone decided so. Beurre blanc isn't a mother sauce because it's simply an acid reduction with butter mounted into it (or a hollandaise gone wrong, depending on perspective). We mount butter into a meat sauce to finish as well but that doesn't really warrant giving it separate sauce status...

It doesn't really matter, most restaurants don't use these sauces anymore, they've been replaced by jus de viande, beurre blanc, puréed vegetable sauces (either on their own or worked into another sauce), and many combinations of these.... As well we've got foams, froths and other air-infused sauces, gastriques, and emulsions of all kinds.

#9

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6/7/06 at 12:48pm

GreaseChef
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Mikeb, no debate as to what the five sauces are. I am mainly surprised at just how wrong I was. :cry: Also, I thought that Beurre Blanc would have to fit in there somewhere.

Am I the only one that couldn't name the five 'grand sauces' off the top of my head? I'd bet that I am not alone.

OK, going to do some more reading. I'll post again when I find out just how wrong I have always been about something else. Not sure what that would be, right now I still believe that I am right about it.

Will work for a bed and shower... I want to find a place to live that isn't Vermont. I am interested in seeing a few sites.

#10

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6/7/06 at 3:04pm

chrose
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that I am, but isn't the definition of a "Mother sauce" as one that is used as a base from which a large variety of other sauces can be made from. If that be the case, then technically a Buerre Blanc should be in that class because there is a myriad of sauces that can be made from it.
I see your point but by that definition a veloute is no more than a thickend white stock, and tomato sauce simply tomatoes. Yes, no? This could be one of those discussions that go back and forth. So let's see where it goes. I'm wating to hear Cape Chefs take on this. Brad?

My latest musical venture!
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"I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP

#11

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6/7/06 at 3:08pm

kuan
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Beurre Blanc is not a sauce, it's an emulsion, more of a vinaigrette warm than a sauce.

But I can't figure out what qualifies as sauce.

Off to dinner... Maybe I'll ask Sarah Stegner.

#12

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6/7/06 at 3:21pm

chrose
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Hollandaise isn't then a sauce either. It too is an emulsion. I move that we change the word "sauce" in this usage to "sauce thing".
Therefore we have the 5 basic "Mother Sauce things".:beer:

My latest musical venture!
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"I'm at the age when food has taken the place of sex in my life. In fact I've just had a mirror put over my kitchen table." Rodney Dangerfield RIP

#13

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6/7/06 at 3:57pm

cape chef
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I know we have had this discussion before, but I guess it deserves to be reincarnated once in a while.Grease, don't worry about what you do or don't know, just be open to learning.The topic of sauces in the French domain are quite specific and not really open to to much interpretation.

With that said.
It basically comes down to this.

Liquid + a thickening agent = a leading "mother" sauce
Leading sauce + additional flavorings = small sauces
As kuan said, a beurre blanc is an emulsion that is stabilized by the small amounts of lecithin naturally found in butter. This forms a temporary oil in water emulsion.

Although beurre blanc is similar in concept to hollandaise, it is not truly a leading sauce. Tomato sauce often is made with mire poix and smoked meats in regards to French mother sauce protocol.

Baruch ben Rueven / Chanaבראד, ילד של ריימונד והאלאן

#14

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6/7/06 at 3:59pm

GreaseChef
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If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then Beurre Blanc must be a sauce.

Edit: Posted that at the same time as your post, Cape Chef.

Should have said, "If it looks like a leading duck, etc"

Will work for a bed and shower... I want to find a place to live that isn't Vermont. I am interested in seeing a few sites.

#15

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6/7/06 at 7:03pm

Nick.Shu
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IMHO - as stated above, a mother sauce can diversify into a myriad of other sauces, a base so to speak, not unlike primary colors in art.

Rather than focus on specific sauces, it is probably easier to remember them as what they are (type) rather than what they should be (actual sauce)

So that out of the way, from how i perceive them to be:

Brown Sauces based on brown stocks
White sauces based on white stocks
White sauces based on milk/cream and roux
Cold Emulsion Sauces i.e. mayonnaise
Hot Emulsion Sauces i.e hollandaise

Even though a Beurre Blanc is a sauce, generally speaking, the end product is still a Beurre Blanc. As opposed to a mayonnaise and its derivatives, sauce tartare or mixed with aspic to make a chaud froid. Or making a demiglas from stocks etc.

"Nothing quite like the feeling of something newl"

#16

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6/7/06 at 10:10pm

Andrew563
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With some of the requests I get, i swear most people think ketchup, mustard , tartar, ranch, and a1 are the mother sauces.

My life, my choice.....

#17

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6/7/06 at 10:57pm

Chefred
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CIA 5 mother (grand) sauces

the CIA (culinary institute of america) says the 5 mother sauces are

1. espagnole
- Demi
2.White sauce
- veloute
- bechamel
3. Tomato
4. hollandaise (emulsion)
-mayo
5-burre blac

Chefred
any other grads out there

#18

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6/8/06 at 4:46am

kuan
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Another reason why Beurre Blanc is not a mother sauce. It goes in and out of style!

#19

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6/8/06 at 5:23am

cjdacook
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This was my method for learning (memorizing) them in culinary school - and it sticks with me today (many, many years later!!)

Just think - Virgin BETH

Veloute
Bechamel
Espanol
Tomato
Hollandaise

cj

#20

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6/8/06 at 5:52am

kuan
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Beurre Blanc Mother Sauce

Here's a pic of some bear blanc. You see the mother sauce and the baby sauces next to each other.

#21

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6/8/06 at 8:46am

Pete
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LOL!!!!! I'd hate to see how you visualize Pasta Puttenseca! :cool: :eek:

From Man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the World-Saint Arnoldus
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#22

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6/8/06 at 12:51pm

Nentony
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Oh My, Thats Really funny!!

Tony

#23

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6/8/06 at 1:10pm

cape chef
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Just another reason I love cheftalk!!!

Baruch ben Rueven / Chanaבראד, ילד של ריימונד והאלאן

#24

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6/8/06 at 5:55pm

Al_Dente
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like the difference between concrete and simply adding dirt to a puddle of mud....the latter lacks construction. lol

#25

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6/8/06 at 10:05pm

jbeisser
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Great thread.

Hi all - Its my first post! I am organizing a cooking series on just sauces to amateur cooks (that includes me!) I feel I really know the at-home cooking mindset but do you think the basic concepts and techniques for 3/5 can be taught in less than an hour? And, by phone? It's one-one-one and there is ample follow-up to the introduction. Thanks for the input.
Jenn

#26

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6/9/06 at 2:09am

Blade55440
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My instructor made us memorize the original mother sauces, but then also pounded into our heads that people are now calling em "white sauces, brown sauces, and emulsion sauces".

The original 5 were:

Bechamel
Espagnole
Tomato
Hollandaise
Veloute

(I cheated and remembered "Beth V." as a memorization tool)

Now-a-days, just like I said earlier it's not those base 5 it's:

white sauce
brown sauce
emulsion sauce

The "new" classification tends to count more emulsion sauces than before.

#27

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6/10/06 at 12:08pm

ED BUCHANAN
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sauce department

Both Beurre Blanc and Hollandaiseand Bernaise are all butter sauces. Hollandaise and Bernaise are emulsions(as is mayonaise) where Beurre Blanc is not. Reason Beurre Blanc is so popular because most cooks know how to make it and they have trouble or are afraid of the emulsions that they will break. Espanole is a derivitive or basic brown sauce of demi glace(half glaze) or glace d viand full glaze, which is not usually found in kitchens anymore. It starts with about 10 gallons of good brown stock cooked down over days till the contents will fill about a half of quart measure.
Veloute is simply Bechamel with the addition of stock of some kind. chef ed

CHEFED

#28

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6/10/06 at 12:12pm

ED BUCHANAN
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demi

You are correct Espanole is a basic brown sauce derived from a Demi Glace. chef ed

CHEFED

#29

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6/10/06 at 2:45pm

Someday
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Demi Glace is traditionally derived from Espagnole. Classic demi is a mixture of equal parts espagnole and veal stock, reduced to the proper consistency. Nowadays, we generally refer to any reduced and/or fortified veal stock as demi.

Is buerre blanc a classic mother sauce? No. But I'm ok with it being considered a modern mother sauce, a la Brown, White and emulsion. That sounds like a good way to update the traditional thinking of a mother sauce.

Ed, Buerre Blanc IS an emulsion. Butter itself is an emulsion (fat suspended in water), so buerre blanc is simply a way to "melt" the butter while maintaining the natural emulsion of the butter.

Veloute is not bechemel with stock. Bechemel is milk, thickened with roux, and simmered with an onion piquet until the flour taste is cooked out. Veloute is made with white stock (chicken, veal, or fish) and roux.

#30

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6/12/06 at 5:50am

kuan
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If you call beurre blanc a mother sauce then be prepared to call beurre rouge a mother sauce as well. How about mayonnaise then, can you call that a mother sauce?

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