COOK FOOD GOOD - Blogging BDL's Cookbook
Part VII. KNIFE CHAT
Writing a coherent and reasonably short piece – say, umm, well “chapter length” -- about how to choose knives has stymied me for more than a year. I’ve made dozens of starts but haven’t finished any of them, while over the same period have written tens of thousands of words on all sorts of culinary cutlery topics in the form of board posts (on CT and other forums).
The subject of choosing a knife – particularly a chef’s knife (or gyuto, or santoku) – can’t really be separated from the prospective owner’s current and near-future knife skills and sharpening regimen. These inter-dynamic relationships don’t make the subject particularly difficult, but it is complicated. Still one has to start somewhere; and one purpose in starting this blog in the first place was to get over blocks by writing and posting; the material can always (and surely will) be rewritten and reorganized later.
Another complication is simple good manners. It’s not exactly way cool to trash anyone else’s opinion by saying, “Wusthof is overrated. Don’t buy it,” when so many people love their trusty Wusties and rest secure in the thought they bought the very best. Not only is it bad manners, it’s dumb and arrogant. How many great meals have been prepped by good cooks using Wusthof knives? 47 bazillion, maybe?
And who am I to say?
May as well start, though. Experience says procrastination won’t improve the situation.
Chris Lehrer posted recently on the topic of an “Anchor knife.” The idea is that there’s a minimal set which covers nearly every knife-prep situation fairly well – and within that set there’s one knife which serves as the “anchor.”
Among those with enough money to afford a decent set and skills (or the ambition to acquire them) the anchor is usually an all-rounder. In other words, a chef’s knife or variant thereof like a santoku, kiritsuke, light Chinese “vegetable” cleaver, etc.
It’s fair to say that a chef’s knife is the best choice for most people who mostly make western style food. Cleavers and kiritsuke have their respective charms, but are an eccentric choice. Santokus are designed in such a way as to make the most of naïve skills, but aren’t nearly as productive as a full size chef’s knife.
Santokus typically run from 6” to 7” in length. The most common choice for a chef’s knife is 8”. A lot of knife “experts,” will disagree with me, but I don’t see that much of a performance difference between a 7” santoku and an 8” chef’s knife. The santoku “scoops” better than the chef’s; while the chef’s can do point work the santoku can’t. But otherwise, they’re short knives.
I don’t want to push you into anything uncomfortable for you – but once you learn a decent grip and how to keep your wrist straight (so the point becomes an extension of your forearm) a 10” knife is as easy to handle as an 8” – and a lot more productive. A chef’s (or gyuto) at around 10” is my first choice for nearly everyone as her or his “anchor.”
It should be acknowledged that the “sharpest” knife in a lot of good cooks’ homes is a steak, bread or some other form of serrated knife. Because they’re the only knives sharp enough to use, they become the anchors. Let’s get something out of the way right now. I’m not denigrating cheap, and/or serrated knives; and certainly not the cooks who use them down. There are better tools for the job – tools which are not only more efficient but allow for more possible types of preparation and which are a heck of a lot more fun. If you don’t want to upgrade, fine; if you do, consider yourself warned.
Not to digress, but terminology time: A “gyuto” is the Japanese word for a chef’s knife. Literally translated, the word means “cow knife,” or “cow sword.” I’m not sure if the term originated to describe knives that were used by beef butchers or to describe knives used by western chefs who prepared a lot more beef than Japanese cooks, or perhaps some other uniquely Japanese concept – like cows with cutlery. Whatever the etymology, nowadays the term is synonymous with chef’s knives.
Chef’s knives come in two basic profiles, German and French. A German knife has a higher choil (the “rise” at the back end of the blade – nearest the handle end, running from spine to edge at the part of the knife nearest the handle); more arc along the edge as it approaches the belly, more belly (the arc from the edge to the tip); and a higher tip.
A French knife has a straighter edge and lower choil. It gives it the appearance of being more of an acute triangle than a German knife. It also has less belly and a tip closer to the midline – nearly a “spear point.”
Because of the differences in geometry a French knife tends to be lighter, more agile, and have a point which is easier to control. German knives are heavier, are more powerful when it comes to heavy tasks like splitting chicken backs or breasts, and are better at “rock chopping,” and a little more convenient for “two hand mincing.”
Japanese gyuto are almost always French profile; sometimes with a slightly straighter edge, and often with a slightly lower tip (which means still less belly). Frequently, Japanese makers start the dip to the top on the spine later than French makers; and almost as frequently round the tip, “kamagata” or “sheep nose” style which gives the knife a distinctly Japanese look but doesn’t make the profile perform any less French.
It’s easy to overrate the differences between the profiles. A good technician will have a favorite, but be able to make the other(s) sing too. Personally, I prefer French/Japanese for their lightness, agility and ease in pointing. (In addition I prefer Japanese chef’s knives over almost all of their western counterparts for a bunch of blade-steel related reasons. We’ll get to those later.
To be continued (soon)...
The subject of choosing a knife – particularly a chef’s knife (or gyuto, or santoku) – can’t really be separated from the prospective owner’s current and near-future knife skills and sharpening regimen. These inter-dynamic relationships don’t make the subject particularly difficult, but it is complicated. Still one has to start somewhere; and one purpose in starting this blog in the first place was to get over blocks by writing and posting; the material can always (and surely will) be rewritten and reorganized later.
Another complication is simple good manners. It’s not exactly way cool to trash anyone else’s opinion by saying, “Wusthof is overrated. Don’t buy it,” when so many people love their trusty Wusties and rest secure in the thought they bought the very best. Not only is it bad manners, it’s dumb and arrogant. How many great meals have been prepped by good cooks using Wusthof knives? 47 bazillion, maybe?
And who am I to say?
May as well start, though. Experience says procrastination won’t improve the situation.
SOME BASICS
Chris Lehrer posted recently on the topic of an “Anchor knife.” The idea is that there’s a minimal set which covers nearly every knife-prep situation fairly well – and within that set there’s one knife which serves as the “anchor.”
Among those with enough money to afford a decent set and skills (or the ambition to acquire them) the anchor is usually an all-rounder. In other words, a chef’s knife or variant thereof like a santoku, kiritsuke, light Chinese “vegetable” cleaver, etc.
It’s fair to say that a chef’s knife is the best choice for most people who mostly make western style food. Cleavers and kiritsuke have their respective charms, but are an eccentric choice. Santokus are designed in such a way as to make the most of naïve skills, but aren’t nearly as productive as a full size chef’s knife.
Santokus typically run from 6” to 7” in length. The most common choice for a chef’s knife is 8”. A lot of knife “experts,” will disagree with me, but I don’t see that much of a performance difference between a 7” santoku and an 8” chef’s knife. The santoku “scoops” better than the chef’s; while the chef’s can do point work the santoku can’t. But otherwise, they’re short knives.
I don’t want to push you into anything uncomfortable for you – but once you learn a decent grip and how to keep your wrist straight (so the point becomes an extension of your forearm) a 10” knife is as easy to handle as an 8” – and a lot more productive. A chef’s (or gyuto) at around 10” is my first choice for nearly everyone as her or his “anchor.”
It should be acknowledged that the “sharpest” knife in a lot of good cooks’ homes is a steak, bread or some other form of serrated knife. Because they’re the only knives sharp enough to use, they become the anchors. Let’s get something out of the way right now. I’m not denigrating cheap, and/or serrated knives; and certainly not the cooks who use them down. There are better tools for the job – tools which are not only more efficient but allow for more possible types of preparation and which are a heck of a lot more fun. If you don’t want to upgrade, fine; if you do, consider yourself warned.
Not to digress, but terminology time: A “gyuto” is the Japanese word for a chef’s knife. Literally translated, the word means “cow knife,” or “cow sword.” I’m not sure if the term originated to describe knives that were used by beef butchers or to describe knives used by western chefs who prepared a lot more beef than Japanese cooks, or perhaps some other uniquely Japanese concept – like cows with cutlery. Whatever the etymology, nowadays the term is synonymous with chef’s knives.
Chef’s knives come in two basic profiles, German and French. A German knife has a higher choil (the “rise” at the back end of the blade – nearest the handle end, running from spine to edge at the part of the knife nearest the handle); more arc along the edge as it approaches the belly, more belly (the arc from the edge to the tip); and a higher tip.
A French knife has a straighter edge and lower choil. It gives it the appearance of being more of an acute triangle than a German knife. It also has less belly and a tip closer to the midline – nearly a “spear point.”
Because of the differences in geometry a French knife tends to be lighter, more agile, and have a point which is easier to control. German knives are heavier, are more powerful when it comes to heavy tasks like splitting chicken backs or breasts, and are better at “rock chopping,” and a little more convenient for “two hand mincing.”
Japanese gyuto are almost always French profile; sometimes with a slightly straighter edge, and often with a slightly lower tip (which means still less belly). Frequently, Japanese makers start the dip to the top on the spine later than French makers; and almost as frequently round the tip, “kamagata” or “sheep nose” style which gives the knife a distinctly Japanese look but doesn’t make the profile perform any less French.
It’s easy to overrate the differences between the profiles. A good technician will have a favorite, but be able to make the other(s) sing too. Personally, I prefer French/Japanese for their lightness, agility and ease in pointing. (In addition I prefer Japanese chef’s knives over almost all of their western counterparts for a bunch of blade-steel related reasons. We’ll get to those later.
To be continued (soon)...
Total Comments 9
Comments
-
"Experience says procrastination won’t improve the situation." Hmmmm , except when you are waiting for some good information about knives...
"It’s easy to overrate the differences between the profiles. A good technician will have a favorite, but be able to make the other(s) sing too." How true...
Thank you for the informative post and looking forward to knowing why you prefer Japanese knives over most.Posted 10-24-2009 at 10:55 PM by petalsandcoco
-
Your use of choil is incorrect to my understanding. A Choil is an arc at the heel of the blade just before the handle. Some knives have a large choil for choking up the blade or as a extension of a small handle.
You'll also see small ones to give relief to stress risers and simplify sharpening at that same point.
Not all knives have choils and I've never seen what I consider a choil on a mainstream kitchen knife.Posted 10-25-2009 at 12:46 PM by phatch -
Chef Petals and Phil -- Thanks for reading and leaving comments.
Phil -- I appreciate your point of view on the meaning of the term "choil," but think you may possibly be confusing choil with "ricasso," or possibly with a choil on a ricasso. Either would be unusual with a kitchen knife because you don't see a lot of those with ricassos.
Another possibility -- perhaps most likely -- is that knife terms aren't well standardized and you're using it correctly your way, while I'm using it correctly in a different way.
In any case, it's a common term with kitchen knives. Sometimes it refers to the entire length of the drop between tang and chin, and sometimes it refers only to the first part.
Western knives with full finger guards as part of the bolster (or sintered on separately), have their choil just in front of the guard -- running the full length of the drop -- and I belive that the usual dictionary definition includes that.
Regarding Japanese western kitchen knives without finger guards, the definitoin usually refers to the "back", non-edged part of the blade; but in English discussions of Japanese knives particularly, the term may be restricted to the transitional curved area starting at the kakumaki and ending at the straight part of the back.
Here's a diagram: Japanese Kitchen Knife Anatomy And Terminology
Anyway, whether I ultimately agree with it or not -- yours is exactly the sort of comment I'm hoping to get. Keep it up, please, please.
Cheers to the two of you,
BDLPosted 10-25-2009 at 05:08 PM by boar_d_laze 
- Here's a definition from AG Russell:
A.G. Russell Knives | Glossary: C - A.G. Russell Scroll down a bit to see it.
Spyderco uses it in a way that violates AG's restrictions, but they make extensive use of it for grip extensions.
:: Spyderco Glossary Entry::
Both of which exclude how the term is used in in that Japanese link. However, as a knife hobbyist of 30 years, I've never seen it used that way anywhere else.Posted 10-25-2009 at 05:28 PM by phatch - Phil,
You're making a larger point. Consider it taken. It's more important to be clear than tenaciously defend an obscure term which seems to have multiple and contradictory meanings.
So ... what term do you use to refer to the back part of the knife which goes from the chin (aka "return") to the handle. I.e., the part of the blade covered by a finger guard on some blades, and left naked on others.
And thanks again for calling it to my attention,
BDLPosted 10-25-2009 at 05:56 PM by boar_d_laze - Kitchen knives are kind of a mutant in this way in that they emphasize this area and most utilitarian knives don't have it at all. Or it's covered in the bolster/handle.
Heel is what the general area would be called and the tang starts there.
In many ways it's analogous to the guard, as dropped edges provide a similar protection in the same place.
I suppose this is why there is no naming convention. The area in the japanese diagram labeled a choil is traditionally curved as that's the primary stress riser between the tang and blade. A squared corner is a frequent cracking point. Not usually curved that much though, just a small radius.
Kitchen knife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia labels it as a finger guard--like my guard analogy above. The point where the blade transitions from the heel to the guard they label the return, but I usually hear that referred to as the kick.Posted 10-25-2009 at 07:20 PM by phatch - Phil,
I'll give you that I got a little creative using "choil," but you've got "heel" and "fingerguard" all mixed up. Either that, or you were writing unclearly for some other reason.
I used "choil" to refer to the back of the blade, and we can agree that I used the term incorrectly -- or charitably say that I used a meaning that's so much in the minority it's confusing.
The heel of the knife is the last part of the edge towards the back end. The very end of the heel, where the edge stops and turns up (if the blade profile is wide enough for a turn up) is called the "chin."
The part of the chin which actually does turn up is called the "return." Sometimes the term return is used synonymously with chin, but otherwise the return is not a part of the heel. The heel is on the edge only.
A fingerguard is usually considered to be part of the bolster. It is either formed with the bolster during the actual forging (typical of martinet forging), pre-formed as part of a bolster which is sintered or hammer forged to the blade, or separately pre-formed and ... yadda yadda. Many knives, including most stamped western knives, and nearly all Japanese manufactured knives are made without fingerguards.
The purpose of the fingerguard is to protect the user's fingers from the back of the blade -- which can be dangerous if it isn't either guarded or rounded off.
What I'm looking for is the term that describes the length of the back part of the knife. It's worthwhile asking around on knife forums and the few makers I know (virtually), to try and nail it down. There doesn't seem to be much love on the topic here -- except from you (and thanks again). I may end up using "back," although that doesn't seem appropriately technical or elegant; and/or possibly stretch "return," just to get another term in so the writing doesn't read so repetitive.
Your pal,
BDLPosted 10-26-2009 at 12:18 PM by boar_d_laze - I think it's clear you need to have a diagram (or maybe a couple, one of a western knife, and one Japanese?). and maybe you can explain why japanese knives have such lousy handles, even on otherwise great knives?Posted 11-03-2009 at 07:41 PM by dscheidt
- Dave,
Will definitely do diagrams of yo-knives. I don't know if there's enough interest except among knife guys for wa-knives. That said, I'm not in any hurry to post them on the blog -- just really happy to get the suggestion from you.
Don't know why so many otherwise great Japanese knives have lousy handles. There are a lot of exceptions to that rule, though. When I talk about particular knife models, I try and remember to talk about the handles too and what your odds are of getting good F&F.
FWIW, handle quality and ergonomics is one reason I plug MAC so hard.
BTW, Masamoto is switching their HC line from ebony scale handles to pakka wood -- which should fit a lot more consistently; and some of their other knives from wood to a proprietary POM -- which is excellent.
BDLPosted 11-03-2009 at 08:41 PM by boar_d_laze
Updated 11-03-2009 at 10:17 PM by boar_d_laze
