[Quinn01]

So i need tips because when the spring rolls around im going to build my own for my mom and i to grow out own herbs and own veggies.

A question i have is when putting down the dirt should i either put blocks down seperating the grass yard from the growing dirt to prevent weeds or should i dig the grass up from where the dirt is going for the garden?

If that makes any sence the way i worderd it?

[KYHeirloomer]

Quinn: If you're going to start gardening you have to learn rule #1:

We call it "soil." Dirt is what goes in the trash bin.

That's only half facicious. The secret of growing good plants; be they veggies, herbs or just flowers, is to first grow good soil.

What you've just done, without realizing it, is opened a whole range of discussion points. So what I'm going to do is ennumerate some of them in the form of questions. You can jump back in with answers. Other forum members can make contributions. And between us all we'll figure out who shaved the barber.

1. How big a patch to you intend opening?
2. Are you going to grow organically? Or use synthetic chemicals?
3. Will you use intensive methods or traditional row methods?
4. What's the underlying soil like?
5. Are you a neat freak?
6. Are there restrictive convenents where you live?
7. Specifically what would you like to grow?
8. Are you and your mom physically able to do a lot of bending?
9. What's the orientation of your planned garden (i.e., N/S or E/W).
10. Have you considered containers as well as open beds?

That should get us started. I'll wait for you and others to jump back in. But one answer to your question below: No physical barrier will stop all weeds. If you put sides on a raised bed it for more reasons than weed control.

[Quinn01]

1. Im not sure yet for now lets figure 6' by 4'
2. Organic
3. Inteinsive
4. Rocky
5. Yes
6. Yes but shh they wont know because im up in the woods
7. I would like to grow a wide verity of herbs and veggies such as peppers (hot and bell) and maybe things such as egg plant
8. yes
9. We are in plant hardieness zone 5B
10. i was thinking an open bed


There will be some kind of fence around the garden to prevent animals such as deer ruining it.

[layla17]

I'm not too familiar with a garden, but my brother in law grows a fresh oregano in his garden and it is amazing. Just thought I'd throw my two cents worth in.

[KYHeirloomer]

Like cooking, gardening is a series of choices. None of them are necessarily right or wrong. They're just different ways of getting to the same place.

A friend of mine, self described as an urban farmer, loves opening his presentations thusly: There is absolutely only one way to grow tomatoes. Pause....... And that's the way that works best for you.

So, take anything I say now merely as recomendations, not something cast in concrete.

6 x 4 is an incredibly small space, to begin with. And, given your rocky undersoil, plus other conditions, I would opt for a raised bed using the material of your choice. This could be 2 x 12s, cinder blocks*, landscape timbers, you name it.

If you go with 2 x 12s, you could make the bed 4 x 8 feet, and it will be modular. That is, with just three pieces of wood you'd have the bed.

With an intensive bed you want to be able to reach halfway across. For most people, 4 feet is therefore the maximum width. And a bit narrower fits the bill for many. Why the halfway-across criterium? The one evil with intensive gardening is soil compactation. You never want to put any unnecessary pressure on it. Certainly you shouldn't be stepping on it.

*If you build with cinder blocks, and turn the top course hole side up, you actually have additional growing space that is ideal for many herbs.

Once you've decided on wall material, and have it in place, it's time to build the bed.

Using string and pegs, lay out the 4 x 8 (or whatever) space. If at all possible, orient the bed so it lies on an north/south axis. That is, the long sides should flow in those directions.

To you have grass growing in that spot? If so, don't worry about turning the actual soil (it's too rocky anyway, right). Instead, cut the turves and turn them upside down so the grass is buried and the roots upwards. Then cover with a degradable weed guard. I prefer the brown bags you get at the grocery, overlapping them in a double layer.

Now build the sidewalls, constructing them so that they weigh-down the weed guard. Then fill the bed with a mix of topsoil and compost. Go to a nursary for this, rather than the garden center as a box store, and pay the premium for a good mix.

Two weeks after constructing this bed you will be ready to plant. Several things to keep in mind:

1. Do not plant anything whose shadow profile will hinder another plant's growth. Shadows are not always a hinderance, though. They can be used, for instance, to extend the season of hardy plants like lettuce.

2. Do not plant in traditional rows. Intensive planting means, among other things, that plants go where they fit; and that you never, ever leave any part of the bed fallow.

3. Given your tight space, learn about companion planting: which varieties aid each other, which hinder.

4. Continually work on building good soil. Sheet composting is an ideal approach, as you feed the soil while mulching it. Green manures, cover crops, all can help. A compost pile is a must!

5. Take advantage of the freeboard above the garden. That is, grow vertically as much as possible, consistent with shade patterns. Here's an example. Erect a trellis on the short side at the north end of the bed. You can then use that to grow beans, or cukes, or even small melons. It will not bother anything else in the garden, and you'll only take up 4 inches of the bed to bring in a crop.

6. Pay no attention to the spacing recommendations given on seed packs and the like. They are designed for mechanical planting and harvesting conditions. Almost all plants will grow quite happily, if the soil is right, if they are spaced to the radius of their crowns. You have to modify this for certain conditions, is all.

7. USDA Agricultural Hardiness Zones are the next best thing to meaningless for vegetable gardeners. What's important to you are frost dates. Learn them, and what they mean to you as a grower.

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but there is no economical way to deer-proof a bed that small. By definition, game-proof means a ten foot fence. So don't even consider it.

There are other ways to repel deer and other critters. Research some of them, and forget the fence.

One other thing: Variatal choices will be a matter of experimentation over the next few years. You may find that one variety of sweet pepper does spectacularly, but bells do not. Or that Asian eggplants grow well while Black Velvet languishes. That will be part of the fun.

[foodnfoto]

Our two dogs do a pretty good job of keeping the deer out of our fenced yard and, for the most part, they stay out of the garden.
They do, however, run through the herb garden, but the plants don't seem to suffer too much. At least the doggies smell good.