[Quinn01]

What would be the best and most useful heirloom tomoatoes i can grow on the east coast (NJ) in a home garden and where can i possibly get the seeds for cheap?

Thanks guys.


*I did find this one website:

Heirloom Tomatoes - Gary Ibsen's Gourmet Heirloom Tomato Collection

[KYHeirloomer]

Gary Ibsen is the world's second sharpest marketing guy. Among other things he introduced Marianna's Peace, with what is probably a made up story, and successfully sold seeds for six bucks a throw. He also introduced the so-called Julia Child, which was merely an unnamed pink tomato somebody had sent him that he decided would be a good testiment to the queen of cookery.

Anyone else would have bred a special tomato for that purpose!

If you're thinking Gary isn't one of my favorite people, you're not far wrong.

That aside, can you narrow things down a bit in terms of your taste preferences. There are something like 6,000 named open pollinated tomatoes, in 8 colors, at least a half dozen general shapes and sizes, and an incredible diversity of flavors.

New Jersey actually is a great tomato state which, if I remember correctly, one time lead the country in tomato production. Rutgers, a great heirloom, is just one of many varieties developed there.

For some direct inputs see if you can track down the Garden State Heirloom Seed Society. Becoming a member would be one of the best moves you can make.

I would also check out specialty heirloom seed companies, such as Marianne Jone's mariseed. Marianne specializes in tomatoes, and is a great resource for both seeds and plants.

SSE (Seed Savers Exchange) offers quite a few tomatoes in its public catalog. And if you join that organization you get the yearbook, which has several thousand heirloom tomatoes being offered by other members.

[stir it up]

some common varieties we like... (we've been growing them for 9 years, in similar climate to you).

orange banana (for flavor) they are a little picky and they split sometimes, but they taste great

Black krim - nice "black" beefsteak type, tasty, decent yield

green zebra are popular, yield well, nice visuals, decent taste

for little tomatoes...
riesentraube gelf
black cherry
white currant have a unique flavor profile if you want a small tomato
green grape also have an interesting taste

I like to have a white one too for color, but I can't remember which variety was best for taste.

then there's the classic Brandywine if you want a plain ole beefsteak type

and others for sundried or sauce

I have since lost the seed, but we grew one called Watermelon Beefsteak that we enjoyed for huge tomatoes.

joining SSE is a nice idea, we got some good varieties from a private collector who had an unbelievable collection. We've also got them from Baker Creek in the past Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds - 1000 Heirloom Garden Seeds in our Heritage Seed Catalog, Historic Gardening Shows and Plant Festivals, they give decent quantity I haven't tried Marianne Jones, sounds like a great source.

Have fun!

[KYHeirloomer]

Just to keep the record straight, the justifyably popular Green Zebra is not an heirloom. It was bred by Tom Wagner, one of several of his modern OP tomatoes that are erroneously grouped with heirlooms.

Which raises an issue little addresed by folks who have jumped on the heirlooms bandwagon: Not all open pollinated varieties are heirlooms. But that doesn't mean there aren't some great modern OPs. The reasons for breeding modern OPs are not the same as the reasons for breeding hybrids.

Black Krim is also popular, thanks, in part, to Martha Stewart touting it. Personally, I'm not as enthused as other people. Indeed, I'm on record as calling it the most over-rated tomato in history. Be that as it may, there are better blacks than that one. Paul Robeson, for instance. Southern Nights, also from the Crimea, is the best black I've ever tasted. But there are two problems with it for the home grower. It's indeterminate. And seed is not readily available.

I'd have to agree about Riesentraube. One of the few cherry tomatoes I can eat; most of them are too sweet for my taste. If I want a candy bar I'll munch on a Snickers. But the Riesentraube has a complex flavor that tastes like a tomato. Black Cherry also is a good choice.

I wish you could remember which white you found tasty. In my experience, and that of most folks I know, the whites do bring that color shift to the table. But not much in flavor. William Woys Weaver has been working on a major exploration of white tomatoes, and keeps threatening to write an article about them. But he has so many draws on his time it keeps sitting on the back burner.

If I were forced to choose just one tomato to grow it would be Cherokee Purple hands down. It is, of course, as ugly as homemade sin. But the flavor more than makes up for its lack of physical charm. And it will, apparently, grow anywhere in North America that tomatoes can be grown.

Fortunately, I don't have to make that choice.

[stir it up]

didn't know Martha Stewart was touting the Black Krim. I first heard about it from a collector in France, krim noir. Some other blacks we grew had great taste, but were more prone to splitting than the krim. I will put Southern Nights on the radar if we can get seeds, or Paul Robeson. I'm excited to try to find your other suggestions as we love the blacks and one even better would be great.

Yes we like Cherokee Purple too and still grow that every year.

I don't remember the name, but we tried one this year with ananas in the title, it was kind of interesting.

On the zebra, I have also seen that greenhouse/hydroponic versions are being adapted.

We'll try to figure out which white, some are awfully bland and one was actually pretty good, now not that it would take down another variety/color in a cage match or anything, but very tasty for a white. This year and last year our labelling got screwed up, last year someone who helped us in the garden pulled out all the labels for some reason, and this year my husband's labels faded to oblivion, so we had issues knowing what was what in some varieties.

KYH any other knockouts for taste you would recommend? We have honed down what we grow to a smaller number, after years of nonsense of having way too many varieties. But each year we try a few new varieties, and I'd love to get your expert opinion on a few nice ones we might not know about. We like the big flavored ones, not into the so called "mild" or "low acid" ones which we think = bland.

[KYHeirloomer]

>after years of nonsense of having way too many varieties<

Are you kidding? When it got to the point where I would have had to bid on Rhode Island to have enough room to grow all my varieties I knew it was time to start developing some focus.

When I tightened my viewpoint it was to grow only Kentucky varieites. Then, when I co-founded the Appalachian Heirloom Seed Conservancy, I broadened back out, slightly, to include any family heirloom from the southern hills.

The problem is, I don't know which of those will be happy where you are. Sometimes (often) it doesn't matter, and a variety adapts to its new surroundings in only a season or two. Other times it never does. Typical is Brandywine, and it's reluctance to grow well in the deep south.

The French variety, btw, is Noir De Crimee, which should translate as Black Krim. But, in fact, they are two different tomatoes. And, while I hate to say it, the French one is the better of the two.

I'm like you. I want a tomato with a rich, complex flavor and a little tartness. By and large I prefer pinks for that reason, as they tend in that direction, just as yellows tend towards the sweet side. But there are exceptions to every rule and I've had some fairly acidic tasting yellows, and one pink that could have been made of sugar. Ugh!

Let me go through my "library" (did you know that that word applies to more than just book collections? I know a place, for instance, that has what is supposedly "the world's largest library of old mill stones." But I digress) and see if I still have seed for Brandt's Old German Pink. That's a variety that was brought here in 1931 from Germany, by a Mr. Brandt. My contact got it from his son, who doesn't garden, and shared it with me. Until I started promoting it, several years back, Vernon and I were the only people growing it.

Vernon is from the Chicago area, and I imagine if it grows well there it will do ok for you. And it's a really great tomato. If I can find seed for it I'll send you some.

[stir it up]

you are far too awesome! wasn't fishing for seeds just recommendations, so either way THANKS!

It's great to have someone's recommendation, then you don't have to grow out 50 new varieties to find the few you like.

Are you kidding? When it got to the point where I would have had to bid on Rhode Island to have enough room to grow all my varieties I knew it was time to start developing some focus.

ROFLMBO, I know exactly what you mean!

BTW we're in the warmer part of zone 5 officially, really a zone 6 now thanks to the carbon. Hubby is good at getting things to a good start with a little heat in his makeshift greenhouse, so I would think we've got a good shot at growing what grows well in KY.

[KYHeirloomer]

Didn't think you were fishing for seeds. But let me tell you AHSC's philosophy: The best way to preserve a variety is to assure that somebody, somewhere, is growing it.

So, if I have the seeds, and you can use them, I'm happy to send them.

This is also why AHSC is the only seed-saving group I know of that automatically sends seeds as part of the membership package. And why our Living Seed Bank is such an important project. They are steps that help assure that varieties get grown on a regular basis.

[stir it up]

such valuable work KYH! And I love that you've focused on your region.

[gonefishin]

Hi all

I wish I had room for a large garden at my house, but I don't. Last year I planted two varieties in pots with a little less than stellar results. This year I'm going to try planting the tomato plants in with the landscaping...we'll see if I get better results.

I'm going to buy the plants this year instead of starting them from seeds. The place I'm getting them from has a decent selection too. You can see the selection here.

I was thinking about getting three varieties. In the running are...

green zebra, garden peach, pruden's purple, thessaloniki, red rose



All of the above selection are on recommendation from the owner of the store. I really love tomatoes...but I'm not familiar enough with them to know what's good.

Any ideas? or any favorites that you may have?

love to hear it>>>


dan

[KYHeirloomer]

>but I'm not familiar enough with them to know what's good. <

Dan,

"Good" is not an objective thing, with a set of measurable criteria. Instead it's based on your preference in taste, size, color, etc. If you're not familiar with the various tomatoes, ask the supplier to describe them in terms of flavor characteristics---sweet, acidic, complex, etc. That way you'll come closer to what you think is a good tomato.

I have no personal experience with either the Thessaloniki or Red Rose, so can make no comment on them---except to say that I'm always suspect of descriptions that use terms like "perfect tomato" and "best tasting" etc. Taste preferences are a personal thing, and vary greatly. And one of those two get raves merely for for fitting into the "smooth, red, round" syndrome of supermarket 'maters.

As to the others:

Green Zebra is a modern open pollinated variety, bred by Tom Wagner. It's one of the "green when ripe" types, and is very popular. Personally I don't care for it all that much. They make interesting additions to mixed tomato salads. And can be conversation starters if you used them as the base of a stuffed-tomato dish---so much so that one source erroneously groups them with the stuffers.

Garden Peach is named for both it's color and the light fuzz covering it. In short, it looks like a peach. It's a sweet tasting tomato. Too sweet for my taste, but Friend Wife loves them. But, then again, she thinks there's nothing better than to snack on cherry tomatoes as they come off the vine.

Pruden's Purple is a very popular pink tomato, with complex flavor. Of those on your list, this would be my first choice. But, remember, I prefer a complex, somewhat tart tomato, and you might not.

[KYHeirloomer]

>Last year I planted two varieties in pots with a little less than stellar results. This year I'm going to try planting the tomato plants in with the landscaping...we'll see if I get better results.<

I grow tomatoes in 5-gallon buckets all the time, Dan, as well as in larger (i.e., 20 gallon) tubs. They grow just as well as those growing free in the garden.

What you have to be aware of, whether tomatoes or anything else, is that container gardening has it's own rules. Primarily this means monitoring moisture and nutrient levels more carefully. Containers tend to dry out faster than the ground surrounding them. Which means more frequent watering. Which means you are leaching nutrients out. Which, in turn, means fertilizing more frequently.

Don't know what your preferences are in terms of supporting the plants. But with containers, wire towers definately make more sense than poles.

Personally, I don't think tomatoes make good landscaping plants. For that I prefer things like okra---whose plants are self-supporting and whose flowers are gorgeous. Eggplant and peppers also are a better fit.

Tomato plants want to sprawl (their natural inclination is to creep all over the ground). And the flowers aren't particularly showy.

Were it me, I'd try containers again, paying attention to each plants' needs.

[gonefishin]

Thanks KYH!

After reading your post I think I'll take another look at the plants and pick Garden Peach, Pruden's Purple and two others that will give me a wide range of flavors. This way I may get a better idea of where I'd like to head.

The spot where I was thinking of planting them is a bit off the beaten path. But I'll have to see how exactly the sun is over there. But I'll certainly rethink the pot issue as well, keeping a closer eye on it's needs.

Thanks,
dan

[OregonYeti]

Originally Posted by stir it up

I don't remember the name, but we tried one this year with ananas in the title, it was kind of interesting.

I'm wondering if this is a Pineapple tomato. In many Indo-European languages, the word for pineapple is "ananas".

[abefroman]

Originally Posted by Quinn01

What would be the best and most useful heirloom tomoatoes i can grow on the east coast (NJ) in a home garden and where can i possibly get the seeds for cheap?

Thanks guys.


*I did find this one website:

Heirloom Tomatoes - Gary Ibsen's Gourmet Heirloom Tomato Collection

Home Depot has some heirloom tomato plants. Not sure how avid of a seed grower you are, or how fast you want the tomatoes. I picked a yellow pear shaped heirloom tomato plant, about 10 inches high, yesterday.