Athenaeus , from what I have read you have received 5-6 copies in two languages of KC.
I think you have worked in the kitchen, but you haven't posted anything about this book...
I am just curious to know what do you think about this book my little bookwarm?

[Greg]

Suzanne, sorry I mis-understood you. He does at least say as much himself about his life being an accurate (or in-accurate) picture of the industry in the chapter on Scott Bryan. I definitely agree with you on A Cook's Tour . Entertaining and informative, but with a funky flow to it.

[Athenaeus]

This book doesn't candy coat anything indeed.

I hope that I am wrong, but I think that this book, in the long term, will harm the business a lot and above all it will harm its author badly.
I think that it was not very smart from the part of the culinary world to embrace this book, but this is of course my opinion and I repeat : I wish I am wrong.

I am sorry that many professionals recognised themselves in this book.I wish things were different.

I have a bitter taste in my mouth though, because none will ever write a book about the decent characters that has met and they actually exist in the kitchen.
About the people that ,although they work 10-12 hours under conditions you all know, they never do drugs and they never get drunk.
About the people , the men I mean, that instead of whispering you something dirty in the ear, they narrate you the last achivement of their kid.
About the people that instead of locking themselves in the WC with a couple of others that stink from sweat and alchohol( I have worked in London, I am sorry, 3 is the usually number for such a party...) to have a 5 min ( 5 min?? I think I say too much...) sex session they go jog or excercise to let the steam off...

The bright and clean ( under any perspective) side of the kitchen seems to be very confidential indeed...

[Anneke]

Athenaeus: that would not have made a very interesting book.... I don't think Bourdain would have written a book that would have made him look like Martha Stewart; can't compete with the goddess of kitchen capitalism!

Anyway, here's what I have observed from my own experience: I have worked in 2 very different restaurants this year. The first kitchen was run by an older (54-50) alcoholic sous-chef. It was staffed with thirty-something cooks. They were all a tad disillusioned, moody, drunk whenever they could and were not unacquainted with drugs. Most were too ugly to get laid, but you never know. For the most part, sex in the washrooms usually involved the guests, not the staff.

In the second place where I worked, the staff is much younger: 19-24. (I feel like their mother!) The behaviour is much different. Only one is on his way to alcoholism (again the sous) and the others are shocked if one of them actually gets some action. There's the occasional joint inthe storeroom/changing room, but beyond that it's pretty clean. Only one indiscretion at the staff Christmas party, but it didn't go beyond what 12 year olds do at the school dance if you know what I mean. Go figure; I'm starting to think the younger generations are ashamed of their parents and are going back to being 'old fashioned'. It's kind of cute and refreshing. Or maybe it's just too taxing to be wild and shocking in this age of laissez-faire and liberalism...

The point being that the landscape is changing and Bourdain's kind might just be going the way of the dinosaur.

[Athenaeus]

Yes Anneke, I know I know what you mean and I understand what the author wanted to show.

All I was suggesting was that you cannot satisfy your hunger by eating your flesh and you cannot satify your thirst by drinking your blood.

Just a question which is not a rhetorical one ( I really wonder about this)

Do you think that the reality described in the book exists only in the kitchens of the States?

Kitchen is a long story in France and London and Milan.
Are those kitchens perfect?
Of course not.

So why you think we didn't have so far a book of this kind discribing the French Reality?

Maybe because a Martha Stewart wouldnt make a carrer in France...

[Anneke]

I bet such books have been written Athenaeus, but are harder to find as their authors have obviously not reached Bourdain's notoriety. Are there no memoir of great chefs out there? I'm also willing to bet that there are 'copycat' Bourdain-style books cropping up all over the world as we speak.

I suspect that hotel kitchens and European kitchens each have their own culture, very different from what Bourdain describes in his book. I would be interested in hearing from people who have worked in either...

[Athenaeus]

Of course such books exist and now we come to my point.

In Europe, they consider Chefs Artists and not laborers, althought everyone knows what goes on behind close doors.

SO, the system there ,protects Chefs they same way it protects Lawyers , Doctors, etc etc etc.

In case someone publishes a book that might hurt the image of a respectable class ,like the one of Chefs, he /she is history.
We never find out a lot about this book...

That's why I say that this book will hurt in the long term the author and then the whole industry in the States...

You do not built a status as a professional with things that you DON'T DO but with things that you do.

Unless, what is suggested in KC has to do with Status. In that case I took it all wrong and I apologize.

But of course, this is just my opinion and I wish I am wrong.

[Anneke]

I see what you're saying. I don't think most American culinary professionals mind this image though, for the same reason that war injusries and scars are displayed proudly as medals (see the 'worst kitchen injury' tread!). If you are introduced to someone as a cook or chef, you are more likely to be received with a wink and a nudge rather than a look of disgust by people who are familliar with Bourdain's work. America doesn't look upon Clint Eastwood's characters with disgust, but rather with respect. Same thing I guess with the image Bourdain portrays. It's a 'cowboy' thing is some sense.

I see what you mean though Athenaeus. My family in Europe would not have been so supportive of my career choice had they read Kitchen Confidential. They probably would have reacted with lesser disgust had I announced that I had chosen prostitution to make a living.

I suppose it really is a cultural thing.

[Athenaeus]

I think very highly of the american society and the american culinary world.

That's why I am surpised with the reaction towards this book.

I mean, were you flattered with this image, regardless if the author was right? He was right, yes!!
But were you flattered??

Anneke, I received 6 copies of this book. With the exception of Melina, my sister, who gave this to me with her kind heart, I wish you could see the face and read the notes of the people that gave me the other 5 copies...

This was their bottom line " Oh ,we know now what you have been doing in your 20ies while you were trying to become a cook ( and they close the eye...) and you play the respectable now"

I don't know if it's a cultural thing but in the States they are people that they want to become chefs. I think that they seek for aknowledgement and not for a cut finger to demonstrate.

[Anneke]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that this is the appeal of the profession for Americans. That would be demeaning and wrong and I, like you, think very highly of America and its chefs.

I'm just saying that gangsters and cowboys have always been a part of the legend and the dream and the 'go west' appeal. Progress in America has always come with a dose of controversy and unconventionalism. Not unlike the artists of Europe; we ALL know their lifestyle was not exactly clean and rosy.

The other thing to consider is that 'libertinage' as my mother puts it is still considered shocking/titillating in America, while the same behaviour in much of Europe (and increasingly, Greece, I am told) is not talked about because it doesn't shock anybody anymore. People are more accepting of it.

Anyway, please understand that I am not condoning this behaviour; I am personally still uncomfortable with it and if I ever wound up in any of Bourdain's **** holes, I wouldn't last an hour under those conditions.

I'm also very sorry that this book may have tainted the perception that your loved ones have of you. They should know better as we on Cheftalk do!

[Athenaeus]

I know what you mean but you were right to straight it out because other people are reading too


If you ever go to London I will tel you to visit a couple of places I worked in

I was lucky Anneke, because in those holes they were decent people too. And this is what I keep saying!!!

Especially one ,who one night, when he saw me drinking whiskey from the bottle, like I was drinking water, he grabbed me from my hair and put my head in the toilet in front of everyone...
After of course giving me a loud lecture of what kind of pseudo-educated and coward I was.

I am gratefull to him and none will ever write a book for those kind people that help the younger ones to find their way.

As for what collegues think, I am too old to care

[cape chef]

I understand all your points here,

I would like to something, I am a Chef, Cooking in kitchens for over 20 years know.

I am by no means a saint, and I have witnessed alot of crap in kitchens. I do however work terribly hard to put fourth a very proffessinal aura. When I put on my Chefs uniform I do with pride and respect to the industry.When I read Bourdans book in cape cod two summers ago , I found my self laughting,then almost crying at his dipiction. This is not the way all American kitchens conduct themselves.I tell you when Mr bourdan hosted that stupid TV show last year about what goes on behind doors in Americans kitchen, I wanted to create a new orifice with my fist for Mr Bourdan. There are still drugs and alcohol being abused in our buisness. But lets not forget that we are not the only industry that suffers from these problems to a certian % .

There are many chefs that pride themselves on doing what is right,and are not concerned about getting laid in the storage room
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[Anneke]

Well said!

I hope more people follow your example!

[Athenaeus]

Cape Chef thank you

I needed to hear that. Although I hate uniforms, I rise from my chair when I see someone that wears it with pride.
Pride and dignity counts a lot for me.

Thank you.

[cape chef]

Listen, I appreciate your thoughts.

But we as Chefs and Foodies need to stick our necks out and say what we feel. If we sit on our arse and just let people decide our fate, I say (Bullsh*t) to that. Now I do not swear to often, but this topic has gotten under my skin. We as a community have an obligation to be honest with one another about the (real) world of kitchens. With that said, I urge everyone to really think through what your role is in the world of food & beverage. It goes way beyond being a good cook. Stand up and be heard!!!
Challenge the negitives, Do your homework so no one can poke holes in your position. There is a way to raise the bar, But it has to be a collective effort. Don't you think?
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