[boar_d_laze]

Everyone likes Swedish steel.

The one Phil mentioned, Sandvik's 12c27, is a very good knife steel. In fact, along with VG-10, it's one of the few steels formulated especially for knives. One of its characteristics is that it takes a GREAT edge -- which you'd expect from a steel used primarily for razor blades. It's also used in a bunch of up-end knives from European makers like Laguiole, and semi-customs like P.J. Tomes.

However, disagreeing slightly with Phil, the steel doesn't hold the edge especially well, -- especially for a steel that's usually hardened to the 57-59 range. Again, typical of razor blade steels. That's the biggest rap against it. It's a lot like 440 series stainless -- perhaps most like 440A -- but better and purer. That having been said, 12c27 is NOT the steel in Tojiro DP knives. The information Tojiro gives is "Swedish" without specifying maker or type. But they do say the steel contains cobalt, which 12c27 does not. FWIW, cobalt adds toughness.

Another candidate besides the N690 I already mentioned is ASP-23 from Erasteel Kloster Aktiebolag. In fact, ASP-23 might be a more likely candidate because it's essentially the same as a very expensive Japanese boutique steel -- ATS-55. That goes with the "high value" theme of the DPs.

BDL

[phatch]

My point with the 12c27 is that it doesn't list Vanadium in it either.

But it's there. 12c27 outperforms its spec because of unlisted "impurities". Other swedish steels benefit similarly.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by phatch

My point with the 12c27 is that it doesn't list Vanadium in it either.

But it's there. 12c27 outperforms its spec because of unlisted "impurities". Other swedish steels benefit similarly.

A. That's a silly argument. First, the Sandvic deposit itself is highly valued precisely because there are so few impurities. Most detailed discussions of 12c27 speculate that its superiority over 440A is attributable to this purity. Second, steel makers list their formulae accurately for the benefit of downstream manufacturers who use the steel for their own products -- such as knife makers. Third, the actual composition is easily discoverable through (relatively) simple and inexpensive chemical analyses like mass spectroscopy and NMR. That is, there's no reason the actual composition for a steel that's been around as long as 12c27 wouldn't be well known and widely published. Fourth, I spent a lot of time researching 12c27 and can find nothing anywhere to support the contention that it contains vanadium in any amount -- even trace.

B. The whole discussion is getting silly and drifting far from the original question which had to do with (a) Forschner, and (b) choosing a good knife for an advanced beginner. Now it's getting dangerously close to a **ck measuring contest.

Three guys are whizzing off a bridge. First guy says, "Water sure is cold."

Second guy says, "Deep, too."

Third guy says, "Not that deep."

Too deep for me,
BDL

[phatch]

Steel Guide -- A. G. Russell Knives

Notice the 12c27 lists NO VANADIUM. Yet it has it. (Source that tells me it has it is Mike Stewart of Bark River Knives) Yes, the ore is very pure, particularly very low silica.

Just for reference, Victorinox uses 1.4116 steel

[buzzard767]

Originally Posted by phatch

Steel Guide -- A. G. Russell Knives

Notice the 12c27 lists NO VANADIUM. Yet it has it. (Source that tells me it has it is Mike Stewart of Bark River Knives) Yes, the ore is very pure, particularly very low silica.

Just for reference, Victorinox uses 1.4116 steel

Let's just settle the entire matter and switch to 13C26 (Udeholm AEB-L). It gets at least as sharp as 12C27 and can be hardened to HRc 63. Nice huh?

[Vladimir]

all this vanadium,cobalt stuff is too technical for me! My next post will be on cookware for the advanced beginner home cook i'm sure that will get everybody going lol thanks for the info Buzzard and all who shared their thoughts.

[phatch]

Yes, that's a better steel. I just used 12c as an example of swedish steel and why it can be better than the specs alone state.

I'm currently carrying a pocketknife in S30V and titanium. It gets plenty sharp. And holds it.

[Phaedrus]

I haven't had much problems with my Tojos chipping the edges myself. And they seem to hold an edge pretty well. They also are some of the sharper knives I've ever found "out of the box"- about as sharp as any Hattori or Shun I've had.