Waterless Cookingware

[wingfanjim]

Hi,

I'm brand new to the forum. I actually discovered this site due to me looking up information on "waterless cookingware". Yesterday, my fiancee and I, attended a presentation by the Simplicity Gourmet company. To be brief, the high pressure tactics, the unclear return policy, and the cost ($2900 for a 25-piece set) scared us off. However, the concept of "waterless cooking" was intriguing.

The way it was described was that it is a concept of low-heat cooking that requires little to no water or oil and cooks with no sticking to the pans. The pans themselves were described as being 7-ply surgical quality stainless steel construction with a "vapor seal" that locked in all the moisture from the food being cooked and a tea kettle like whistle system that when it starts whistling would let you know when your food is cooked properly.

For someone with as little talent in the kitchen as me, I found this VERY promising, however, as I said, I just couldn't pull the trigger because I didn't feel comfortable. Anyway, can some of you people with more experience in the kitchen than me comment on this type of cooking and why, if it is legit, can I not find similar products available in stores?

Thanks in advance for helping out one of the culinary illiterate.

[Chef Norm]

your intuition is correct--there is no such thing as waterless cooking, and all the promises of higher vitamin content, lower fat content, etc. are just that--promises. If it were true, why wouldn't everybody be using it? If it sounds too good to be true--it probably is!

[phatch]

The use of "surgical' means virtually nothing. Many steels and other items can accurately be called surgical, but it means nothing for cooking. And also for knives.

From your description, it sounds like a pressure cooking system masked in hype and other bogusness.

Phil

[wingfanjim]

That's what I figured. I guess now I will have to consider the differences between the stainless steel and non-stick pans (although it does appear that the part of their presentation about the dangers of the non-stick pans might not be totally false).

[boar_d_laze]

"Waterless" cookware is, as you have surmised, basically a scam for preying on health oriented consumers. There is no evidence that the cookware produces healthier foods than other pots and pans. The logic behind it holds up only as long as the salesman is talking. In fact, the cookware is low-pressure, first generation, pressure cooking technology. Nothing else.

On a related issue, there are in fact several lines of 'non-stick" cookware which hold up well and won't throw TFEs and/or PTFEs in measuarable quantities into your food. A good, affordable expample, residential-oriented line is Swiss Diamond. Don't take that as a recommendation, though. I'm not a fan of non-stick myself.

There are a variety of materials and construction methods used for making good pots and pans for home cooks. For pots, sauce-pans, and other vessels used for cooking liquids the best interior is stainless steel. Any number of metals or combination of metals, including stainless steel, make for good exteriors.

The term "surgical stainless" steel refers to a range of steels with certain minimum percentages of nickel, molybdenum, chromium etc., which is also free from certain reactive materials like titanium. In fact you do want a lot of corrosion resistance -- which is mostly a function of having enough chromium. You also want a hard, scratch resistant surface. Which is why a grade of stainless called 18/10 is usually preferred for cooking interiors. 18/10 means 18% chromium and 10% nickel.

Still with me?

Highly polished, hard interiors can be made relatively non-stick by using heat and a minimal amount of oil.

However, the slickest surfaces are actually cast iron or carbon steel that has been properly cured with heat and oil, then properly maintained. Both of these surfaces allow foods to sear or saute properly without any negative health effects. Although, some care must be taken to control the use of highly acid ingredients in steel or cast iron cookware.

Cast iron has other advantages including heat stability. If you want to cook a lot of tomatoes in a cast iron pot -- you use enamel over cast iron.

And so it goes -- different materials are best for different purposes. "Horses for courses," as the saying goes. And we've by no means covered the gamut, even for home cooks. This means that the best cookware set for any serious home cook is a motley group of several different types of pots and pans.

If you're not serious, but just want something you don't have to worry about, and last a few years, a set of Emirilware or Wolfgang Puck or a similar line will do you well.

BDL

[wingfanjim]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

"Waterless" cookware is, as you have surmised, basically a scam for preying on health oriented consumers. There is no evidence that the cookware produces healthier foods than other pots and pans. The logic behind it holds up only as long as the salesman is talking. In fact, the cookware is low-pressure, first generation, pressure cooking technology. Nothing else.

On a related issue, there are in fact several lines of 'non-stick" cookware which hold up well and won't throw TFEs and/or PTFEs in measuarable quantities into your food. A good, affordable expample, residential-oriented line is Swiss Diamond. Don't take that as a recommendation, though. I'm not a fan of non-stick myself.

There are a variety of materials and construction methods used for making good pots and pans for home cooks. For pots, sauce-pans, and other vessels used for cooking liquids the best interior is stainless steel. Any number of metals or combination of metals, including stainless steel, make for good exteriors.

The term "surgical stainless" steel refers to a range of steels with certain minimum percentages of nickel, molybdenum, chromium etc., which is also free from certain reactive materials like titanium. In fact you do want a lot of corrosion resistance -- which is mostly a function of having enough chromium. You also want a hard, scratch resistant surface. Which is why a grade of stainless called 18/10 is usually preferred for cooking interiors. 18/10 means 18% chromium and 10% nickel.

Still with me?

Highly polished, hard interiors can be made relatively non-stick by using heat and a minimal amount of oil.

However, the slickest surfaces are actually cast iron or carbon steel that has been properly cured with heat and oil, then properly maintained. Both of these surfaces allow foods to sear or saute properly without any negative health effects. Although, some care must be taken to control the use of highly acid ingredients in steel or cast iron cookware.

Cast iron has other advantages including heat stability. If you want to cook a lot of tomatoes in a cast iron pot -- you use enamel over cast iron.

And so it goes -- different materials are best for different purposes. "Horses for courses," as the saying goes. And we've by no means covered the gamut, even for home cooks. This means that the best cookware set for any serious home cook is a motley group of several different types of pots and pans.

If you're not serious, but just want something you don't have to worry about, and last a few years, a set of Emirilware or Wolfgang Puck or a similar line will do you well.

BDL

Wow! Thanks! Actually, thanks to everyone who has responded. It has been a big help. As I said, I'm a relative novice in the kitchen so I know very little about any of this stuff. Being a guy, I really don't care about having a "set" of cooking ware that matches or looks pretty. In the kitchen, I sort of take a construction worker's view of cooking. I don't care how it looks, I just want the right tool for the job...within reason.

[Mannlicher]

Boar d laze

And so it goes -- different materials are best for different purposes. "Horses for courses," as the saying goes. And we've by no means covered the gamut, even for home cooks. This means that the best cookware set for any serious home cook is a motley group of several different types of pots and pans.

most excellent advice. No single cooking vessel will do it all. I never recommend buying a set of cookware, and I always stress to have some copper, some cast iron, a bit of enameled cast iron, etc.
This is but one rack of cookware in my kitchen, a real potpourri, if you will, of different styles and different materials, and represents years of collecting.

[wingfanjim]

wow! that's a lot of cookware!

[MaryB]

Anodized aluminum for non-stick. Stainless for any high heat searing and tomato based foods.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by MaryB

Anodized aluminum for non-stick.

With all due respect, IMO no. I use anodized aluminum (1st and 2d generation Calphalon) and it is not non-stick. It cannot really be seasoned either. Anodized aluminum is good for "high-heat searing" and "tomato based [i.e., acid] foods." It's perceived weakness as a searing material is its dark color which makes seeing fond a bit difficult. At least according to Cook's Illustrated and a few other reviewers who've downgraded it for its color. Personally, I think that's BS. The real weaknesses of this type of cookware -- which is indeed very good cookware -- is a tendency to warp and to eventually scratch.

Stainless for any high heat searing and tomato based foods.

Some truth there. Stainless as an insert for acidic foods, mos' def. As an insert in an aluminum or multiple "ply" shell, or as a shell sitting above a heavy aluminum or multi-ply disk, it prevents warping -- well, the multiple ply construction does. Plain stainless is very prone to warpage. Plain stainless tends to be sticky relative to the true high-performing sear surfaces.

Best for searing when acid is not an issue are well cured carbon steel cast iron -- nothing else is as good. Not even tin or stainless lined copper. They have enough mass to hold heat and not drop temp when the (relatively) cold meat is added to the pan. They have just enough stick to develop good fond. They release quickly and completely at exactly the right moment. The surfaces take aggressive handling and metal equipment without any problems.

Best for saute is carbon steel -- See above, plus light enough to toss the food. Plus cheap as chips. Copper lined with stainless and the multi-ply stainless wonders are a close second -- as long as they're heavy enough for good heat distribution and light enough to toss. Expensive, though. Aniodic aluminum -- good stuff. Fallen way out of favor for whatever reason. Lincoln/wearever makes a good line FWIW. Plain aluminum. I love plain ol' cheap commercial aluminum. It's so light, you can toss-turn so easily, yadda yadda yadda. Too bad about its reactive nature, eh? Still, nice to have a couple of pieces. All of this saute stuff is true for searing too, except weight isn't quite the issue.

Woks, paelleras, etc. -- Carbon steel. Whatever's next best is a lot more expenive. What's the point.

Omelette, crepe, etc. -- Carbon steel. Ditto.

Sauce pans -- the multi-ply pans kick butt.

BDL