[ChefOfTheFuture]

Does anyone know if Wusthof plans on releasing more knives in their Classic Ikon line? I bought a few of those knives and I absolutely love them, they have a great feel in my hand, and they are surprisingly sharp for a German knife.

Specifically does anyone know if they plan on releasing more Chef knives? I bought the 8" as part of a set and it's a little underwhelming, I would like to see a 10" or 10" wide chefs knife to come out. As well, I'm looking to buy a quality offset bread knife, but I don't want to buy the classic if they are going to come out with the Ikon version soon.

Anyone have any insight?

[Dillbert]

my crystal ball sez they already exist in 16 & 20 & 23 cm

item 4996
WÜSTHOF - Knife collections

[adamm]

they used to have listed on there website that they had a 26 cm(which i belive is 10 in) knife but i have never seen it at a store or on any online stores. Havent been onthere web site for a couple months so i dont know if the still have it listed. maybe try an email them, they can probaly leave you know if there going to make one, they were friendly and pretty quick the last time i emailed there customer service.

[boar_d_laze]

Wusthof Le Cordon Bleu 10-in. Cook's Knife - Wusthof Chef's Knives

60% off a Le Cordon Bleu -- same blade, same cut-down bolster, different (Classic) handle. If you really want the blade this is the one. If you're trying to complete the set and need matching handles -- I don't think they have it and doesn't look like they're likely to have it. I think Ikon sales have been tilted to the demographics which prefer the shorter lengths.

FWIW, the LCB line got blown away by the Ikon line, but other than the handles they're exactly the same knives.

BDL

[ChefOfTheFuture]

Yeah, the Le Cordon Bleu is nice, but being a Johnson & Wales student, I just can't bring myself to buy one. Aside the point I already own a few Ikon knives, and I'm sold on them.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by ChefOfTheFuture

Yeah, the Le Cordon Bleu is nice, but being a Johnson & Wales student, I just can't bring myself to buy one.

Good one.

Aside the point I already own a few Ikon knives, and I'm sold on them.

Honestly, the only difference is the handle and the twist of the tang. In every other respect, type of steel (X50CrMo), shape of blade (slightly modified German profile, spear point), edge geometry (single face, 17 degree 50/50 symmetric bevel) weight, balance, etc., they are the same.

The Ikon was designed to combine the Japanese influenced blade and feel of the LCB with the ergonomic shape of the Culinair (itself strongly influenced by Global) and the ever popular POM scale material of the Classic and LCB. And how can you pass up that price?

If you use a standard pinch grip on your chef's knife, have a more or less normal sized hand, and don't suffer from hand problems, the handle shape shouldn't be much of an issue. Same handle as a Wusthof Classic -- one of the great handles ever. I've handled a lot of knives over the years and find most traditional handles comfortable as long as they're reasonably well finished. You may be less amenable to the style though.

You may also care about keeping all your knives within the same manufacturer and line. It's not very professional, but I'm in no position to criticize. My own knives have morphed from a set into a themed collection. Glass houses, stones, you know the deal.

If the cosmetics are the deal breaker, and you need a longer knife than the 8" you've outgrown, presumably you know that there are 9" Ikons available. That's the 23cm which Dillbert mentioned. Check out Cutlery and More. Wusthof Classic Ikon - Wusthof Ikon Knife, Wusthof Ikon Knives, Wusthof Ikon Classic Cutlery, Wusthof Icon Knife, Wusthof Icon Knives

Honestly, I wouldn't. You get a lot more work out of a 10" edge than a 9" And I don't think the Ikon's worth the $150 discount price, let alone $200 retail. Ikons have a nice feel, if a little hefty, they're very well made and attractive. It's a crying shame Wusthof is still using bunk steel. I wish the Euros and Americans would start making knives that really compete with the Japanese -- especially since so much of the good material comes from Sweden. But it's not my opinion that counts is it?

Here's hoping you find what you're looking for,
BDL

[ChefOfTheFuture]

Half the reason I like the Ikons is that when I picked it up it fit in my hand. I'm a fairly big person and I have huge mitts, so the big handle just felt natural. As well the edge is very sharp, and is easy to resharpen. For work its amazing, its a clear winner with other knives because I can spend 8 hours prepping things with this knife without having to hone it or sharpen it, and I walk away from work without any hand pains.

You may not like the Ikon line, but for me it was a great fit.

As well, I don't have just 1 knife manufacturer or line in my knife kit. Some knives are good for somethings and others aren't. I use the Ikon 8" as my chef knife, a 7" shun classic santoku, and a Victorinox Fibrox offset serrated knife, amung others.

For me though, as I feel with everyone... it comes down to what your comfortable with, and what you can handle. Someone asks me what knife I recommend, I let the try out some of mine and see how they like it.

I'm waiting for Wusthof to come out with a 10" wide chef's knife, I've used the Wusthof Classic 10" wide, and loved it. I would have bought one if it wasn't for that **** bolster...

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by ChefOfTheFuture

Half the reason I like the Ikons is that when I picked it up it fit in my hand. I'm a fairly big person and I have huge mitts, so the big handle just felt natural. As well the edge is very sharp, and is easy to resharpen. For work its amazing, its a clear winner with other knives because I can spend 8 hours prepping things with this knife without having to hone it or sharpen it, and I walk away from work without any hand pains.

You may not like the Ikon line, but for me it was a great fit.

I do like the Ikons, just not as much as some other knives. I like everything about them except their weight and the quality of the steel they use. I've got big paws too.

As well, I don't have just 1 knife manufacturer or line in my knife kit. Some knives are good for somethings and others aren't. I use the Ikon 8" as my chef knife, a 7" shun classic santoku, and a Victorinox Fibrox offset serrated knife, amung others.

Good.

For me though, as I feel with everyone... it comes down to what your comfortable with, and what you can handle. Someone asks me what knife I recommend, I let the try out some of mine and see how they like it.

Nearly all of my knives are antique carbon Sabatiers -- everyone worries too much about the care issues to recommend them -- but they work great for me. They can be made very sharp, and the edge lasts a long time with a good steeling regimen. I've got a lot of Forschner Rosewood specialty knives as well -- garde manger, filleting, that sort of stuff. And some Henckels Four Star that I used for awhile when I was still catering, and just HAD to have when it first came out in the mid-seventies; and some this and that, too.

I was teaching a few cooking classes in the nineties and early zeroes which ended up being a lot of knife skill stuff. Most of the students were other lawyers and so I had a chance to play with some very expensive knives from all over. Amazing how few people can sharpen a #*&ing knife, isn't it? Anyway, I still get calls to come over and "see my new knife," which usually means they want it profiled and sharpened.

We had a few really nice Japanese knives go through here (Hiromoto AS) but they were requisitioned by my son or my wife didn't like them or ... If I didn't have so much complicated personal and emotional history invested in my collection, I'd probably choose mostly Masamoto HCs. Again with the carbon.

I'm waiting for Wusthof to come out with a 10" wide chef's knife,

Don't hold your breath. From what I was told, most Ikon purchasers are women and the trend is toward shorter knives, rather than longer. As adamm said, they apparently had a 26cm (10") but they discontinued it. The Ikons are just different handles on LCB blades -- and the blades were an overt attempt to copy Japanese shapes, which themselves are mostly copied from the French. So, unless Wusthof decides to work away from it's own Ikon design philosophy, you probably won't see that deep, curved belly either.

I've used the Wusthof Classic 10" wide, and loved it. I would have bought one if it wasn't for that **** bolster...

I don't get what you don't like about the (now discontinued) Wusthof Le Cordon Bleu line. It seems to be exactly what you're asking for -- a Classic without the finger-guard. (Ikon's have a bolster but no finger-guard) -- but maybe the blade doesn't have enough arc? Whatever. You want big belly, no finger-guard, big hand friendly? Do I have a knife for you! F Dick 1905 Chef's Knife 10"

Good luck on the hunt
BDL

[adamm]

if you like the 10 in classic(just not the bolster) just get a file and go at it. youll have it worked out to where youll like it. Or get a non bolstered knife, aka japanese, i have a misono sweedish carbon series and love you nice fit in the had good balance. you mentioned you have a shun so you have a clue what japanse steel can do. Its far suppier in edge restention. the biggest down fall is you cant try and feel them in your hands first but i dont think youll be disapointed. Trust me take the plung its worth it.

[ChefOfTheFuture]

The only problem with that, is I have never held a Misono or used one for an extended period of time. I bought the knives I own based on actual use, and opinion, not on someone else's opinion. However Misono has quite the reputation and I have looked at them before, I've just felt a bit apprehensive towards buying one because I've never actually used one.

Right now, I'm content with my knives. If Wusthof comes out with an Ikon 10" I'll probably buy it, but if they don't I'll probably take a look at that F.Dick or the Misono.

[boar_d_laze]

adam,

I don't want to steal your thunder. Tell him about the dragon.

BDL

[ChefOfTheFuture]

What's this dragon you speak of?

[adamm]

Originally Posted by ChefOfTheFuture

What's this dragon you speak of?

heres a picture of mine

Korin - Fine Japanese Tableware and Chef Knives

you can buy them at korin, btw there carbon steel and will react with just about everything but the patina is cool once it sets in. Theres lots of knives out there beyond the world of german knives, I was all in to german knive and bought a bunch of knive about a year ago and now have 4 japanse knives that cover the basics right now and looking to get more. I still use the german knives but not as much as japanse. the shapness and edge retention on japnse knives will blow you away, but keep in mind they will be sharp out of the box but not to there fullest potential.

[ChefOfTheFuture]

And here I am thinking that Misono only made the UX10 series, which from what I hear is still pretty sweet. I do like Japanese knives, and slowly but surely they've been finding their way in my knife kit replacing German knives. I just find it hard to find a Japanese knife with the qualities I like in a knife.

In a nut shell my perfect knife would have some sort of contoured handle much like the Ikon because it is comfortable to me, it wouldn't have a bolster, it would be big - something like 9-10" long and 3-4" wide, and it would have to be durable. Sharpness is big on there, but I'd much rather have a blade that stays sharp longer, than one that can have a sharper edge but loses it after an hour of heavy use.

That dragon knife you showed me, how is that like in comparison with the UX10?

[boar_d_laze]

A number, if not most, of the better Japanese knives will hold an edge much longer than any Wusthof.

There are a few ergo handles, but very few. You might be interested in a traditional Japanese "wa" handled knife -- but the balance is very blade forward if you care about that. Also, forgive me, but you don't seem like a real experimental kind of guy.

UX-10 is Misono's top of the line stainless. Misono Swedish is their top of the line carbon. Like most of the big Japanese manufacturers -- but not all, and not the small ones either -- the stainless is the top of the top. So, the UX-10 has, as a whole, better fit and finish. It's a little complicated because a great many of the Sweden series don't have any F&F issues at all. So we're talking about things like better rounding on the heel, and absence of grind marks on the tang -- that sort of thing.

The Sweden blade is a very good one. Light, sharp, good shape. The balance is very good. Edge taking and holding are much better than your Wusthofs. Rockwell Hardness is around 60, IIRC.

The Misono Sweden has some serious competitors in the Kikuichi Elite Carbon and the Hiromoto Tenmi Juryaku AS which is an exotic carbon steel core surrounded by a stainless -- so the only exposed carbon is the edge. AS (aogami super) is one of the best Japanese steels.

Masamoto makes two carbon knives, the CT and the HC series both of which are excellent. Masamoto makes very comfortable knives well finished knives -- true across all of their lines. The HC is probably one of the best western style knives made. Great steel. They also make two stainless series. The least expensive is the VG-10 (same steel as the core of your Shun Classic), which is a knife you'd probably like a lot. Reasonably priced too.

The closest thing to the Ikon handle are the Nenox western G and S-1 series. It's a long story, but the Ikon handles evolved from the Culinair, which was (and is) Wusthof's attempt to copy Globals. The S-1 series are probably far more than you want to spend on a work knife. The Gs are nice knives

I know of some heavy gyutos, and some yo-debas for that matter, but I don't know of any Japanese knife with the deep, curved belly you're describing.

Do you have a reason for wanting such a deep belly with so much arc? Are you looking for a lobster cracker?

If you can put up with carbon -- another idea you're probably not going to like -- is one of the antique Sabatiers that were made for the Canadian market in the first half of the 20th Century. There are some deep blades in the Elephant and K-Sab collections, which look to me as though they were made at the same place at the same time but the companies have wildly different stories. The bolsters on these knives were formed in the martinet's mold at the same time the knife was forged. They look like narrow finger-guards -- a lot less prominent than the German finger guards you seem to dislike so much. Other than that the knives don't have any bolsters at all. If you're interested, I'll give you some urls so you can at least look at the pictures.

BDL