[anoop]

OK, I don't cook a whole lot, but I do want to start cooking more than I have in the past.

I used to have a cheap T-FAL set, but got rid of it after I found out that the tephlon use for making the non-stick surface can actually make it into the food when used at high temperatures.

So now, I want to get back to basics with something made of tried and true age old materials that would hopefully be safe and healthier than using non-stick pots.

I visited Williams Sonoma and liked what they had, although I did find their stuff very pricey. I'd appreciate any comments on their Lagostina and All-Clad sets and whether you'd recommend one over the other.

The glass lids by Calphalon, which I saw at Crate and Barrel, look pretty nice. Does one need to be careful about those getting cracked, if for example, placing it in cold water while the lid is hot, or are they pretty resistant to that? Would this be a reasonable choice, or would one of the above brands be better?

Any other suggestions would also be appreciated.

I'm sure this forum gets this type of question a lot, so if you have some kind of FAQ that covers this topic, I'd appreciate that pointer as well.

I am a little hesitant to go out and spend a lot of money when I don't really know how to assess the quality of something, hence my question.

Thanks,
Anoop

[phatch]

Most here aren't fans of sets. You tend to end up with pots you don't use/like.

All Clad is highly regarded, though there are reports of poor customer support on the warranty side. You can often find All Clad in discount stores like Marshalls, TJ Maxx and so on and pick them up cheaply. I've not found them in my local discounters.

Glass lids are tempered and fairly tough. If you use them in the oven, they can lose their temper over time. But generally, they're tough.

There have been a number of threads on this topic in the past. I'll try and pull up some links you might find informative.

[KYHeirloomer]

Phil's pretty well summed it up.

Sets are initially appealing. But far too often they contain pieces that you never use. So the value just isn't there.

Unfortunately, it's often the case that a particular item you want is not available in open stock, and only comes as part of a set. Poor marketing on the maker's part, IMO.

There is nothing wrong with glass lids. They're made of tempered glass, and can withstand a pretty wide shift in temperatures. But I don't know why you'd want to drop a hot one into cold water. That's not really a good idea for any cookware material.

As to All-Clad, I'm one of those who have no use for the company, which has the worst customer service in the industry. You couldn't give me another piece of All-Clad, let alone sell me one of the over-priced things.

I've had good luck with Calphalon. Also Henkels and others at that level. But, by the same token, my Wear-Ever pots have lasted a long time, with no problems. What I'm saying is that you don't have to invest the equivalent of a second mortgage in cookware.

Also, don't forget there are many materials in addition to stainless. Check out, for instance, some of the carbon steel pots and pans, which are just as good and usually a lot cheaper.

Cast iron---either coated or not---has uses that cannot be duplicated with other materails, and you might look into at least one iron skillet and "Dutch oven."

And, despite the potential health issues (for most of which the jury is still out), you'll find that most commercial kitchen are loaded with aluminum pots and pans.

[ChrisLehrer]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

Also, don't forget there are many materials in addition to stainless. Check out, for instance, some of the carbon steel pots and pans, which are just as good and usually a lot cheaper.

Cast iron---either coated or not---has uses that cannot be duplicated with other materails, and you might look into at least one iron skillet and "Dutch oven."

If you are relatively new to cooking, think carefully before you get into cast iron and carbon steel. There are some maintenance issues you will have to deal with: they must be seasoned and then taken care of properly to avoid rust, and in the case of carbon steel, in order to make them work really well. I think it's probably worth it if you have no particular habits as yet and are willing to start developing some good ones, but if you're not willing or able to put extra time and effort into your equipment you're probably better off with rust-free materials.

And, despite the potential health issues (for most of which the jury is still out), you'll find that most commercial kitchen are loaded with aluminum pots and pans.

I heard an interesting story on NPR about this a year ago. Apparently the jury isn't still out, if we're talking about scientists and doctors. The original studies that suggested aluminum pots and pans might be dangerous, because the aluminum would go into your brain, turn out to have been misinterpreted. There have been subsequent studies focused on the question directly, and there is no evidence that aluminum pans can hurt you. The NPR story was so interesting because this medical scientist was discussing how difficult it is to convince anyone: everyone seems to have heard that aluminum pans are deadly, and nothing will convince them otherwise. Practically speaking, of course, you may have some trouble finding such pans outside a restaurant supply house, because there isn't much demand -- everyone "knows" they're deadly, right?

[brreynolds]

If you'd like a completely amateur point of view, I agree with Phil & KYH on all of their points. If you want to look around for high-end cookware at something like a discount, in addition to the suggestions they made, you might want to take a look at www. cookwarenmore.com. That advertises itself as an All-Clad outlet, selling seconds. I've bought some stuff from them, and I couldn't figure out why they were "seconds." The prices are lower than the regular All-Clad prices, which means they're only high, not extortionate. (And every once in a while they run sales.) They also carry other brands.

If you plan to go the All-Clad route, or to similar brands, I'd recommend stainless steel. Unlike the clad stuff, it happily goes in a dishwasher. About 10 years ago, I went out and splurged on bunch of high-end cookware, and now have to wash more dishes by hand than I'd ever have thought about before the "upgrade."

Every cook (even us amateurs) has favorite pans, and they're not even all of the same material. So buying one at a time is usually best designed to give you what you would want over time. Soups, stocks, and other stuff you do in a big pan don't require a heavy-duty pan, so you can go with lighter, less costly stuff there. Like KYH (I've been away for a while; it's Kyle, isn't it? I couldn't confirm from an earlier post) I think you'd want at least one cast iron skillet and dutch oven, and you'll need to look around a bit to decide what size. I do a lot of cooking for 1, and then a lot of entertaining, so I have two groups of sizes.

On putting hot glass into cold water, don't. Any material will shatter if it is subjected to a sufficiently extreme temperature change. Back in the days when Thermos bottles were more common than today, mothers always warned their offspring to warm the bottle with hot water before putting coffee, tea, etc. in them. I once saw a nice pre-Civil War glass bowl turned into two nice pre-Civil War half bowls when hot gravy was poured into it without it having been warmed first. "Tempered" glass is just less likely to shatter, not impossible to shatter. In fact, a few weeks ago, I let a cast iron griddle get hotter than I was aware, and it cracked when I poured oil onto it. (That was the damnedest thing I ever saw; I had thought cast iron was invulnerable.)

[KYHeirloomer]

No, I am not Kyle.

[Bubba]

I bought a set of Cuisinart Multiclad Pro and I love those. I use every pan in the set, no useless ones. I also have an enameled cast iron dutch oven and a couple cast iron skillets. The Cuisinart pans are fully clad, not just on the bottom and the heat very evenly.

[KYHeirloomer]

>There have been subsequent studies focused on the question directly, and there is no evidence that aluminum pans can hurt you. <

I won't go into the journalistic accuracy of NPR, except to say that they're among the ones who first misinterpreted the early reports. Now they complain that nobody listens when they try one of their non-retraction retractions.

Anyway, the original study (which may have been filled with artifact) did not conclude that aluminum caused anything. What it purportedly found was a higher incidence of aluminum in parts of the brain associated with alzheimers. On the assumption that the study was correct, popular science reporters concluded that aluminum caused alzheimers.

Meanwhile, real scientists were trying to establish what, if any, causal relationship existed. Again, assuming the original study was correct, the question was: Did aluminum build up cause (or contribute to the onset of) alzheimers? Or did alzheirmers somehow cause the build-up of aluminum? And, either way, was there a genetic relationship to aluminum build-up.

In the course of doing those studies it turns out nobody could replicate the original findings, and is now generally believed that one of the medical techs somehow messed up.

But the fact is, aluminum has been looked at as a possible link in other illnesses. Which is why I say the jury is still out.

And, of course, there are some things---particularly acid foods---that you don't want to cook in aluminum anyway. Even white sauces should not be made in aluminum, because they turn gray if you do so.

>Practically speaking, of course, you may have some trouble finding such pans outside a restaurant supply house, because there isn't much demand -- everyone "knows" they're deadly, right? <

I don't think that's true at all, Chris. The high-end shops tend to not stock straight aluminum because 1. it's cheap, and the margins on it are low, and 2. it doesn't fit their image. However, most of the anodized cookware stocked by them is aluminum---and overpriced, IMO.

In big box and general department stores, aluminum cookware is still all over the place. It doesn't predominate like it used to (only because they have low-end SS lines they can sell at a bigger mark-up), but it's still fairly common.

The hard one to find outside of restaurant supply houses is carbon steel. I haven't seen any of that in retail establishments in a mort of years. But I wonder if, with the rediscovery of cast iron, if carbon might not be poised for a come-back as well.

[ChrisLehrer]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

I won't go into the journalistic accuracy of NPR, except to say that they're among the ones who first misinterpreted the early reports. Now they complain that nobody listens when they try one of their non-retraction retractions.

As far as recalling the story correctly, you've got it right and I misremembered. Thanks for jogging my obviously aluminized brain!

As to NPR, though, I will say that this criticism in this particular instance isn't warranted. They weren't complaining about anything: it was the medical researcher being interviewed who was annoyed that nobody wanted to believe aluminum pans might not be dangerous. Anyway...

I don't think that's {i.e. the difficulty finding such pans} true at all, Chris. The high-end shops tend to not stock straight aluminum because 1. it's cheap, and the margins on it are low, and 2. it doesn't fit their image. However, most of the anodized cookware stocked by them is aluminum---and overpriced, IMO.

In big box and general department stores, aluminum cookware is still all over the place. It doesn't predominate like it used to (only because they have low-end SS lines they can sell at a bigger mark-up), but it's still fairly common.

The hard one to find outside of restaurant supply houses is carbon steel. I haven't seen any of that in retail establishments in a mort of years. But I wonder if, with the rediscovery of cast iron, if carbon might not be poised for a come-back as well.

Fair enough. The availability of cheap aluminum may be something of a regional thing: it's just not around much where I shop in the U.S. except in the Asian markets.

On anodized aluminum, which I agree is overpriced, if you read the Calphalon promotional literature thoroughly and with a jaundiced eye, you may notice some hints that if you ask me are intended to suggest that their pans, because they are anodized, will not hurt you, unlike the cheap ones. Personally, my problem with Calphalon, apart from the fact that it costs too much, is that it scratches remarkably easily and has to be hand-washed.

You're dead right about carbon steel. I doubt it'll come back, though: cast iron requires some maintenance but is pretty forgiving, whereas carbon steel demands good habits. Besides, I know lots of people who think a patina is basically disgusting and dirty.

[KYHeirloomer]

>Personally, my problem with Calphalon, apart from the fact that it costs too much, is that it scratches remarkably easily and has to be hand-washed.<

Not just Calphalon, Chris. In my experience, all the modern anodized cookware is crap. If you think Calphalon is bad, check out some of the Oneida, which seems to scratch if you just look at it crosseyed.

And yet, the celebrity chefs all seem to use metal utensils in anodized. Maybe they replace the pan after one use each time???

[ChrisLehrer]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

Not just Calphalon, Chris. In my experience, all the modern anodized cookware is crap. If you think Calphalon is bad, check out some of the Oneida, which seems to scratch if you just look at it crosseyed.

I didn't mean to single out Calphalon as opposed to other anodized aluminum. My mother is a fan of Calphalon, so I end up with a certain number of their pans and no other anodized aluminum. I have to say, if you get them free as presents, they're not bad.

And yet, the celebrity chefs all seem to use metal utensils in anodized. Maybe they replace the pan after one use each time???

Gee, it's almost like they're paid to use the things or something! This shakes my deep faith in TV celebrities.

But, wait, does that mean that Shun and Kyocera knives aren't the best in the history of the world?

[KYHeirloomer]

>Gee, it's almost like they're paid to use the things or something!<

Ya think?

[gonefishin]

Hi there,


I had a couple of Calphalon pans that had glass lids. They were fine for a while, but after a couple of years the area that seals I started to notice an accumulation of water trapped in the area. I was unable to get the water out of this area which led me to believe the moisture may have been entering during the cooking process when the metal/glass lid was heated.

No matter what the reason...the water wasn't coming out.

dan

[anoop]

I ended up buying a Lagostina saucepan yesterday. The instruction book suggested that I wash it with warm water before it's first use, and also coat it with a thin layer of oil. Anyway, after hand washing and drying it, it had a fairly strong odor. I'm not sure what it was...probably new metal? I washed it several times. The odor seems to be getting less strong.

Is this normal with stainless steel pots?

Anoop

[phatch]

Originally Posted by anoop

I ended up buying a Lagostina saucepan yesterday. The instruction book suggested that I wash it with warm water before it's first use, and also coat it with a thin layer of oil. Anyway, after hand washing and drying it, it had a fairly strong odor. I'm not sure what it was...probably new metal? I washed it several times. The odor seems to be getting less strong.

Is this normal with stainless steel pots?

An odor isn't normal. But new pans often have a manufacturing residue on them that you should wash away before using. I