[Dillbert]

DuckFat -

I'm very glad you're pleased with your Viking. regrets, I am not.

not remotely trying to "argue" - but I own one, a gas six burner "professional" - it sez' so right on the label - and starting at year two it has been unreliable and problem prone. the 'warranty' is one year - hence a completely meaningless scrap of paper. don't know about you, but I'm not of the opinion that a $4,000 cooktop needs to be replaced every year just to maintain a 'warranty'

we're talking about "gas" here - the stuff that tends to ignite and blow up kitchens, houses, and cooks.

pretty much any silly goose would expect the "ignition" system to be absolutely IDIOT proof and work forever. see: pilot light.

the burner grates have warped (probably the finest Chinese cast iron available), the valves are sticky and inconsistent in their numbered settings-to-flame. don't get me started on the burner grate feet, at $16+tax per burner.

I've got a very expensive "hole" in my counter top that needs s natural gas powered cooktop device that "works" - Viking, regardless of marketing hype, does not meet my standard of "it works"

[rbrosseau]

Dilbert:

>>The electronic ignition is the weak point in any brand.

I apologize, calling this a service issue is probably a inaccurate in many cases. The actual issue with many of the ignition systems is user care such as dirty burner caps not making a good ground connection, and poor positioning of the electrode (which usually leads to redisgned parts and service bullets) etc. Further the ignition system on any gas appliance will wear out like the spark plugs on a car. Many people will get 5 or so years out of oven igniters, spark modules etc but this all depends on use and how well the unit is cleaned.

>>Viking probably has the largest dealer and service network for any commercial style range.

Again any appliance repair center can apply to be a servicer in any area. The only brand that uses an exclusive servicer is Kenmore, by sears witch as many know is entirely manufactured by random third parties (Including viking at times) The thing about parts is that they will only allow authorized servicers to sell their parts. So very few parts if any are available at Reliable Parts, or A.P. Wagner etc This also makes the customer susceptible to stupid pricing (that is pricing determined on the spot based on whether the servicer likes you or not as you have no idea of actual pricing) The regional parts dealer we had to use wouldn't even sell parts directly to consumers.

>>they now have a true professional line although it has sealed burners.
The only thing that makes any of these units professional is the look.
They will almost never have as powerful of burners, or large of hinges etc as a true professional range. They may be similarly equipped with features but most importantly real commercial ranges will likely lack some safety features required by state or local law to be installed in a home. I have seen a few Garland ranges for example in homes that have required farther spacing from flammables (your cabinets etc) than a similarly looking residential class unit.

>>Viking makes all of their own ranges and cook tops

You may never find any credible 'source' for this other than a dealer or servicer's word of mouth. This is sort of highly guarded info that is common knowledge to many. As an example I currently own a Maytag built fridge ( it has Maytag labeld on many of the parts as proof) labeled as a Fisher and Paykel, it has a well document problem and a Maytag issued service bulletin, but Fisher and Paykel dis avow any knowledge that this is a Maytag built unit and will not perform the suggested repair. As another example, many parts you order through Viking will have a viking sticker simply laid over the maytag or asko label and of course a higher price tag.

[DuckFat]

"The only thing that makes any of these units professional is the look"

I'm not sure if that's a typo or if you are un-aware that as of this spring Viking has a true commercial line. These units have much higher BTU's etc than the commercial or professional "style" ranges etc for the home.

[Dillbert]

rbrosseau -

the position of the metal-ceramic-metal ignition posts actually has not changed over the years. In my attempts to "maintain" function I bought a cute little brass wire brush to "clean" the area(s).

the theory should work so well as the attempt.

I turn a burner on, it sparks. two minutes later I turn a burner on and it does not spark. next day it does not spark, day after it does spark. the 'sparking' bit is high voltage generated by a transformer inside the "guts box" at year 5+ the fact that it works, it does not work is unlikely an electrical transformer issue. it's a crappy design of the ignition post. NHSTA recalls cars for faulty brakes; faulty ignition systems on a gas appliance is not entirely dissimilar. the failure results can be fatal.

I also have to disagree with the "any servicer" thought. Viking controls its distribution chain very tightly. if one calls a non-Viking rep, all you get is a service call to investigate the problem, a "I'll get back to you" promise from the technician - while the cook top sits there quietly incapacitated, then finally Viking's markup + local non-Viking markup on parts plus service time for the local guy to educate his-self on how Vikings work.

you can go online and order little rubber grate feet from Sears (for their brands) - you cannot go online and order Viking grate feet. been there, (not) done that.

>>The only thing that makes any of these units professional is the looks.
oops, gotta disagree. the "definitions" are not formalized - but 'professional' devices tend to higher outputs, and frequently require (as mentioned) clearances / non-combustible surrounds not commonly found in USA home kitchens.
a more accurate "label" may be 'residential' vs. 'commercial'
the 'professional' label is imho entirley meaningless - ask any professional chef around here - they can cook on anything . . .

[rbrosseau]

Duckfat:

No argument intended, only rational conversation.

I stand corrected Viking is now offering a commercial series of ranges etc. I have no idea who makes it. It may in fact be viking, however this product is aimed at restaurants not the home market.

As far as labour pricing this could be a regional law issue. But the companies i worked for all negotiated labour rates with the individual brands and customers paid by the hour at market prices for labour.

As for blue star, five star etc... like it or lump it, if i am gonna buy a Cadillac i'm gonna save up and get a Cadillac not the Hyundai that looks like a Cadillac.

PS. it has been a pleasure chatting with you. As a servicer i see people when you are pissed off, you are the first person i have "met" that is happy with their viking. Good luck with it in the future.

[rbrosseau]

Dilbert:

Actually the electrode issue i was referring to specifically was on a DCS, the kit provided by them had burner base plates with a slightly altered position for the electrode a new ignition box and wires with better insulation.
But the convenience of an electronic ignition means maintenance such as your wire brush keeping the area clean. Many of these high end appliances have filters the need cleaning or scheduled maintainance or special installation requirements (water line locations, cabinet spacing, larger gas line etc). High end doesn't mean indistructable and it certainly does not mean idiot proof. Many of the complex electronically operated ovens and such from Miele would make a Microsoft employees head spin.

Another reason I was never a fan of Viking, they seldom had these "kits" to offer customers as well as their very short for the price warranty.

As far as the danger to from a faulty ignition system, it is no more or less dangerous than a pilot light that fails. The fact is that NG or LPG are dangerous substances but it would likely take hours and hours of an open valve and an igniton source for you to have an explosion. The air to fuel ratio has to be exact. You would most likely notice the smell and investigate the problem before any such issue ocurred. Anything can happen, but the odds are in your favor.

And true you can only call an authorized viking rep for parts and warranty service, but any servicer can technically apply with viking to be authorized. They do keep tabs on their technicians, but its not as organized as you would think. There are large organization that do this business but most smaller towns and cities rely on family operated firms for service. My local viking rep does all of the aforementioned brands plus likely some i have never heard of.

The bottom line to any purchase is to do your homework, weigh the product options and opinions of others and dont let yourself get sold on a products looks or un-substantiated reputation alone.
Maytag had a good name, and now?? Kitchenaid used to be the best dishwasher you could by, and now??

My opinions are mine alone and yours to interpret for your own use.

[Dillbert]

>>opinions

indeed, we all have them. along with assorted other unmentionables. <g>

I can brush-a-brush-a-Ipanna until I'm purple. there's some dumbwitted logic in the Viking ignition circuity that wins out over common sense and applied physics.

>>Kitchenaid used to be . .
oh yeah. things change.

>>take hours and hours of an open valve and an igniton source for you to have an explosion.

well, perhaps technically accurate, but when I turn on a gas valve, wait for the click-click, not come, go put a spark ignition to the burner and experience a 12-20 inch ball of flame, kinda makes me think it's time to unplug the crappy ignition system and rely on a manual ignition routine from the git go. no comparison to pilot lights. if the pilot light goes out, it is "out" until relit. it does not go lit and go unlit according to whims of <whatever>

[drrobind]

I am also looking for a 48 inch or 60 inch stove. I recently came across the GE monogram and I think it is really great. It has self cleaning of BOTH ovens, convection, and 1 1/2 ovens, the largest can accomodate a full sheet pan, and the other to accomodate 1/2 sheet pan. Also, has a proof setting for baking breads.
Most of the other ovens I have looked at do not have ALL of these factors. A few have the proof setting (kitchen aid, wolf, and ge), some have no self cleaning ovens or only one, and many of the ovens can't accomodate a full sheet pan. Ones that can accomadate a sheet pan, may not have a self cleaning oven (JennAir) or only one (Thermador, which doesn' offer proof setting). If you are a baker these things are important.
Most surprisingly, Wolf's oven is one of the tallest, (DCS is really short for cooking height), but Wolf's oven is only 17 inches deep (and I tried to fit a sheet pan in without any luck). I think this is the real fault of the lovely and expensive Wolf. Viking is not too deep either.

I am still looking into American Range, Capital (although it doesn't have proof settings), and Blue Star.
Likely I will get the GE.

[Johnny Drama]

I own a 48" Viking range and will upgrade to a 60" in a few months. Not because mine is a P.O.S. but rather I love their products. I wish I have horror stories to tell, but mine has not given me any problems since owning it for 4 years. Prior to that, I owned a 36" dual fuel which also performed superbly.

I actually toured the Viking factory a couple of years ago and learned a lot about the company. While some of their products are built for them by other manufacturers, they do, in fact, manufacture their own ranges, wall ovens, refrigerators, and dishwashers. Companies like Wolf and Dacor have products manufactured for them as well (i.e. microwaves by Sharp).

[Hotchpotch]

Much like the question what is better Chevy or Ford, you will find many people claiming ‘their’ stove is better. Very few people who have spent a pretty penny on these types of stoves will admit problems, even if they have had them. And it is also true that you could have bought brand X that is known to have terrible reliability and never have a problem in 20 years, the same goes for bullet proof brand Z that gets a service call every 6 months. With that said this is what I found out when I did my research 5-6 years ago.

Reliability – After speaking to several different service repair managers and repair technicians I found unanimously the same comments that have been put forth here. Viking on average is more repair prone than Wolf.

Build – I focused in on the oven door hinges which are a weak point on true commercial units. I actually got to take apart and look at the hinge assembly on both the wolf and the Viking and the Wolf. The L shape arm was attached at more points with bigger bolts and the actually arm was much beefier on the world. The spring looked very similar to those in my restaurants on the Wolf, the Viking was a smaller lighter duty spring.

Grill – Wolf has a high end ceramic charbroiler that puts out much more heat (BTU’s are about the same, but the ceramic plate is what matters) than the Viking. Viking’s is nothing more than a burner tube like you have on a propane grill.

Support – As was attested to here, people who need a repair on a Wolf get fantastic support from the factory. Their customer service is legendary and they bend over backwards for any problem that you encounter.

Trends – [This was 5-6 years ago] Wolf is doing business as usual, top quality product – top price. Viking has been marketing to home builders and because of that has been giving some steep discounts to get their product into new homes – some have wondered if they can sustain profitability or will they downgrade/cheapen the manufacturing process to keep profitable.

Personally all the evidence I saw pushed me very quickly to purchase a Wolf. But like I said earlier, a Ford person thinks his product is best while a Chevy guy knows his is better.

I also don’t want to paint the picture that a Viking is a P.O.S., it isn’t.

Cheers

[DuckFat]

Originally Posted by Johnny Drama

I own a 48" Viking range and will upgrade to a 60" in a few months. Not because mine is a P.O.S. but rather I love their products. I wish I have horror stories to tell, but mine has not given me any problems since owning it for 4 years.

My Viking is pushing the ten year mark. Like you I have had nothing but positive experiences with the product and service.