[grantmasterflas]

The other thing I'd like to say is there IS a difference between pans that may look the same. I have a Calphalon non-stick sautee that cooks wonderfully and an Analon non-stick sautee pan that doesn't. The Analon looks much nicer built but the bottom is just too think (that's my theory anyway). It heats up slow and reacts slowly. I can get any frond out of it (even considering non-sticks inability to do so) and I just don't like using it. The Calphalon has warped and probably for the same reason - it's too thin.

I used to have some stainless with aluminum disk sauce pans and they'd burn the crap out of stuff along the sides of the bottom and there were hotspots in the actual bottom surface. If I had to guess it's because the stainless was too thick and the aluminum too thin.

Grant

[RouxTheDay]

Jason, if I understand where you're at right now, in terms of expertise and outfitting a kitchen, I'd try to read through all the information posted here. Much of it is admittedly excellent, but possibly a bit too far up the experience curve for you.

My own opinions on the most essential pieces in a home kitchen, especially when you first start building a collection of good-quality cookware:

1. As a general rule, do not buy cookware sets. You'll get stuck with stuff you don't need or want, and therefore will not have really saved any money. Plus, why spend the money all at once when you can but a piece at a time over time? There are exceptions, of course -- if a smaller set contains exactly the things you are positive you'll use/need, and it's a bargain, no problem. Just make sure, whatever you buy, that it has all-metal handles (no plastic), and that they are riveted (not welded or soldered). Even the lids need to have metal handles!

2. Another general rule... do not ever buy stainless steel that does not have an aluminum or copper core. The thicker the core (disk of aluminum or copper sandwiched between stainless steel in the bottom of the pan), the better it will conduct heat and resist warping.

3. You'll never regret having at least one non-stick skillet (shallow frying pan with sloped sides) for eggs and the like. Teflon wears out, no matter what, so don't blow a lot of money. Just make sure it's very heavy-gauge aluminum with a riveted, all metal handle. A rubber handle cover is fine as long as it's removable, so you can stick the skillet in the oven for something like a frittata, etc. The heavier aluminum will conduct heat better, and is less likely to warp. If you have space and money for two, get an 8-inch and a 12-inch, or something along those lines.

4. At least one lidded sauté pan (like a skillet, but with straight sides). Stainless steel over a thick aluminum or copper core is good for a home cook. The advantage of an aluminum core instead of copper is weight and cost -- much lighter, much cheaper. If you can afford to buy a good brand, such as All-Clad, you will have made a long-term investment in something you probably will never have to replace. Make sure it has a helper handle, especially if it's a big 5 or 6 quart size!

5. Lidded 2-qt. and 3-qt. straight-sided sauce pans will get loads of general purpose use. Mine get used for simmering or steaming veggies, making rice, double-boiler, etc.; but I mostly prefer a saucier for sauces (see below). Add other sizes as you figure out your needs.

6. A lidded dutch oven, the biggest you can afford, store and lift when full. Enameled cast iron (e.g., Le Creuset) is most versatile, but regular cast iron and stainless have their places.

7. A stainless and/or aluminum stock pot. I think 12-qt is ideal, but it's sort of a matter of personal preference. I personally wouldn't get less than an 8-qt. model.

Try out a saucier, a slope-sided sauce pan. I use them for all kinds of things, but they're especially good for (most) sauces and things like short braises. Not having a "corner" helps with getting ingredients fully incorporated, and prevents scorching. I love these babies!

[shel]

Originally Posted by grantmasterflas

I tried to include the URL but apparently I can't post URLs until I've made 5 posts or more. Anyway go to google and search for this exactly

cooks illustrated pan materials

And click on the second link which is a pdf. Maybe someone else that can post URLs will reply and add the URL?

Is this the one:

http://quicktips.cooksillustrated.co...5_Cookware.pdf

shel

[RouxTheDay]

Here's a link to the document grant mentioned (thanks for that! I've been wanting it!):

http://quicktips.cooksillustrated.co...5_Cookware.pdf

Another good site is Consumer Search, which consolidates reviews of products from multiple sources:

Cookware Reviews; Stainless Steel Cookware Reviews

[grantmasterflas]

Thanks guys! That's exactly the one I was referencing. I agree with Rouxtheday's recommendations.

I'm going to add that once you get the basics - stick frypan, non-stick frypan, sauce pan (maybe two sizes), cast iron skillet, stainless stock pot you can just add what you need to cook what you want. After several years of using my enameled dutch ovens extensively I've realized that I'd love to have a smaller 3.5 qt dutch oven too. I have a large oval and a large round one. Both work wonderfully but I now am finding that I'd "need" a smaller one. Note that I don't actually need it but it would be advantageous for me to have a smaller one. Obviously I've been getting by.

A few things that I've bought because I though ahead of time that I'd need them just sit in the pantry. That includes a 10.2 inch copper frypan and a 9.5 inch copper sautee pan. I don't use a "stick" surface to sautee usually and I prefer an 11" frypan to the smaller 10.2.

The other thing I caution against is buying stuff just because it's a good deal. Make sure it's something you actually want. I'm guilty of walking through marshals or TJ-maxx and taking stuff home that I thought was an especially good deal and then not using it. Had I saved the money I could have put it toward something nicer. It's better to have 8 pieces of higher quality cookware than 15 pieces of cheap stuff you don't use.

A lot of times there are ways of cutting corners on price, Marshalls and TJmaxx are two of them (just make sure the lids fit!). If you want copper order it directly from Paris for half the price as Williams Sonoma or Sur La Table. Buying off brands for some things (enameled dutch ovens) is a great way to go and buying the Cooks Illustrated Best Buys are good too. Sometimes the Best Buy actually wins the comparison. Forschner knives are an example of one that consistently wins the knife tests and cost substantially less than JA-Henkels or Wustoff which are usually midpack.

Grant

[Jason]

Well so far i am trying to keep up with all three of you and will not take ones advise over the other, but i will check the site you gave GMF. And i think i have also discover by watched each person speck their mind that it will come down to what i want and what i like just like BDL has said. For the most part it has only been BDL to really give me input, so it is nice to see others state their thoughts as well.

[grantmasterflas]

Jason,
One thing you have to keep in mind is that cooking is very subjective. Have you ever discovered a wonderful restaurant that you just can't stop raving about only to take some friends and watch them muscle through gag reflexes just to please you? People are subjective and just like art food is a very subjective topic.

It may seem like we're all at odds but if you look through what each one of us has said there's probably 85% similarity. BDL likes carbon steal, I like copper (for some things) and if you asked someone else they'd swear pure aluminum is the best.

The reality is this - you need a pan that heats up and cools down fast for sensitive food (Alluminum/Copper). You need a pan that heats up fast and cools down slow for other types of food (Cast Iron). You need pans that stick so you can capitalize in the Maillard reaction and make create pan sauces ("stick" pans) and you need slippery pans for more delicate items like eggs and veggies (non-stick pans). Because we're experienced cooks we sit around and nitpick over small differences but I don't think anyone here would tell you to make a pan sauce in a Teflon coated pan or to cook eggs in a stainless frypan.

Most of what we're saying is inline. However just as people have favorite foods they also have favorite characteristics in pans and no two people are alike.

My advice to you is to start small and get one or two things. I don't think people in general get too wound up about stock pots so maybe you should start there. It seems that there are a lot more differences of opinion when it comes to frypans than anything. Pick up a name brand frypan and try it. If it doesn't satisfy you then come back here and tell us what it was and what it did and we'll tell you why and then resume our normal debates over which material is best!

BTW I don't think we've asked you what kind of food you plan on cooking?

Grant

[Jason]

Well Grant,

I have cooked a few different things, chinese is fun to cook but if i had a food i would like to learn as much as i could about i think it would be Italian. To be honest grant that is why i have even started asking so many questions about pans and such, is because i would love to learn more about pasta's and thier sauces. I have a set of three non-stick pans but that all i have. I just got a stock pot about a month ago and i have put it to work haha. I got it from wal-mart to my surprise, and was not sure why it had a disk on the bottom until i did some research and found out it was a alluminum disk. Sadly that was how bad i was with all the differences on pots and pans. I have learned quite a bit since then and most being from the wonderful people on this site like you and BDL. I have found that when i have a bad day at work (well it would be a night for me because i work nights) or i am stressed about something i find myself in the kitchen. There is just something about cooking that clams me down, and i find quite abit of enjoyment in it. I like to watch my family try the food i cook and am always open to why they do or don't like it.

I understand that for the most part everyone is on the same page about what they are saying like you said, and that everyone will have thier own option about likes and dislikes on pans. I learned from my mother the wonders of the cast iron pan, but everything else i have had to figure out on my own for the most part. I would love to go to cooking school but i am in the process of moving so i will have to put that dream on hold for now. But for now I am trying to take in all that can from the people that seem to know so much here.

[grantmasterflas]

Jason,
If you like pasta you should start making your own. It's great fun and you get to make huge messes. I've perfected ravioli making at home at this point. You need a bit of equipment but most of it's just method. I started making ravioli because I wanted to be creative. My favorite home made pasta is butternut squash filled ravioli (with a touch of maple and nutmeg) in a pistachio cream sauce. There's a little restaurant near the Duomo in Modena Italy that makes it to perfection. Trying to get it at home the same way was impossible.

If you want to start off small and make fettuccine, linguine or any stuffed pasta you can get a small hand cranked pasta roller for about $20-40, a food processor (with decent gears) and some pasta forms for stuffed pasta or pasta drying rack for stringy pasta. The hand cranked pasta roller works best if one person is cranking and the other feeding the dough through the roller. If you have a Kitchen aide Mixer you can buy the pasta roller attachment and the mixer turns the rollers and you do the feeding.

Anyway you throw eggs and flour in the food processor run it until it's formed in a ball, kneed it for a second and let it rest for an hour. After that you can roll it out using a pasta roller into thin sheets and lay it over the forms and fill them with whatever you want. Then freeze the pasta so their firm while you're boiling water. Once the water comes to a boil cook the pasta.

Fresh egg pasta even if it's spaghetti or fettuccine really isn't the same thing as dried pasta. It isn't even made from the same ingredients nor does it have the same flavor.

BTW Italian is a good place to start because you'll have plenty of subjects to try it on (who doesn't like Italian) and it's really very simple to make. Italian food in Italy is simpler and more "pure" than Italian food in the states. Italian food in the states gets unnecessarily complex. Just keep it simple and focus on a few flavors with great pasta and you'll have winners on your hands.

Grant

[Jason]

You know Grant it is funny for you to say that about making my own pasta, today i made some spaghetti. It was pretty good (i still have not had the chance to start trying my own pasta sauce yet though) I added some different things to it to spice it up. I like to spice things up, but i was telling mt roommate the same as you just said. I would love to make my own pasta, and am thinking about making other things as well like cinnimon rolls and such. A kitchen aid mixer is one thing i am really looking forward to getting but it will be one of the bigger pieces that i am going to wait and save for. I guess you can say that i amkinda scared of doing my own pasta and even breads, not really sure why because i know that if i don't pratice then it will never get better. BUT thank you very much for telling me about your pasta, i am going to try and get my kitchen set up soon but atm i am trying to get ready to move so that is where my time is now.

[grantmasterflas]

Jason,
Pasta is easy, bread is magic. I know people that have been cooking for years that can't make a loaf of bread! There's a lot more tactical "feel" to bread whereas pasta you just follow the directions.

You missed a great sale on Kitchenaid this Christmas season. They had the 600 Pro ($499) on sale for $219 after rebate. I thought about buying 20 of them and selling them on ebay for $300 ea!

I also replaced my food processor with a Kitchenaid and can't believe I didn't do it sooner. The kitchenaide rips through about anything including pasta dough and doesn't even complain.

Grant

[grantmasterflas]

Oh, red sauces for pasta are easier than you might think. Start with crushed tomatoes and fresh herbs and go from there. If you do what a lot of beginner cooks do and try to add spices to Prego you'll just be battling blandness. Starting fresh isn't any harder.

Grant

[Jason]

I found a good site for Kitchenaid i believe, buykitchenaid.com i think it will be good for me and if not i can always go better later. it was a 5 quart mixer with the small utensil set the mixer bowl cover, pasta maker and a cook book for $300. I would love to get all kitchenaid for my kitchen, maybe in time.

As for the pasta sauce that it was i have been doing is just useing ragu as a base to start, but the only way it tastes any good at all is if i quater up some roma tomatos and saute onions with portabello mushrooms. But your right i am sure that a homemade sauce would be so much better. So if i may ask you, do you use only crushed tomatos for your sauce or do you use tomato paste as well?

[grantmasterflas]

Originally Posted by Jason

As for the pasta sauce that it was i have been doing is just useing ragu as a base to start, but the only way it tastes any good at all is if i quater up some roma tomatos and saute onions with portabello mushrooms. But your right i am sure that a homemade sauce would be so much better. So if i may ask you, do you use only crushed tomatos for your sauce or do you use tomato paste as well?

Jason, making it from scratch won't take much longer than what you're doing and will taste much better. I start with 2 cans of whole tomatoes. You might think using fresh tomatoes would be better but the quality is all over the board with fresh tomatoes. Anyway drain two cans of tomatoes but keep the juice. Heat veggie oil in a skillet until shimmering and throw in a diced onion and cook until it's translucent. Then throw in with the onion some dried oregano (1/2 tsp) and a couple cloves of minced garlic and stir for about 30 seconds. Add all the tomatoes except one from the strainer and cook stirring for about 10 minutes until the tomatoes start to brown a bit. Pour in 1/3 c of red wine and stir for about a minute until the alcohol is mostly gone. Add the tomato juice that you kept and cook for about 10 minutes. Add the remaining tomato that you kept back and blend in a food processor. I don't know what kind of equipment you have but even a cheap junky food processor from Walmart will do here. You might be able to get away with a blender but be very careful not to puree your sauce. You still want it a bit chunky when done.

When you get it to the consistancy that you want put it back on the stove and add several tablespoons of fresh chopped basil (yes fresh!) and some olive oil, salt and pepper to taste. You may want to add a bit of sugar for sweetness depending on how it's turned out.

I've been a bit vague on measurements because this is basically a base sauce that you can do anything you want with. If you're already adding onion and spices to Ragu you're not that far off of doing it with caned tomatoes. The only added expense would be having a bottle of red wine around and some fresh basil. This sauce tastes alive though whereas the spiced up Ragu is going to be very flat.

I'd suggest you get some fresh basil, some garlic a bottle of Merlot and some onions and make this sauce over and over and keep track of how much of each thing you're using and fine tune it to your taste buds. You're probably looking at about $4 for a fairly large batch (64 oz) of this sauce. Not only does it not cost more but it tastes quite a lot better and once you have it memorized and you don't have to look at a recipe it goes very fast. Besides red pasta sauce is a great place to start cooking because it's hard to mess up.

If you're cooking spaghetti at the same time I'd start a large pot of water boiling about the time you're putting the tomatoes in the pan. That way your noodles and the sauce will be done at the same time.

Grant

[grantmasterflas]

Jason,
By the way, you really don't have to slave over your home made sauce for hours like people think. Start to finish this sauce is done in about an hour. It will take about half that to boil water and cook noodles.

Grant