[adamm]

Originally Posted by Rambo

I'm looking for suggestions on good serrated knives- not necessarily a bread knife, more of like a 8" utility knife with an offeset handle. I've used a Forschener, which an old chef swore by, but it dulls and it's not worth sharpening. He suggested throwing it out and buying a new one ( they're less than $20), but it seems like a waste of a good knife and $20 every year or so. Any suggestions on models and manufacturers would be appriciated.

i have a 8 in off set henkels that i found at a marshells for 20 dollars. i have the straight handle version too. both good knives, i dont really use serrated knives that much so they dont get that much of a workout. i have seen shuns with the off set handle but there around 80 or 90 dollars. personaly for a pro kitchen i would go by what you chef says use it till it dull then toss it. unless your doing alot of bread and need serrated then i would go with the 10 in mac bread knife. and i can cut anything better else better with a non serrated edge so...

[crimsonmist308]

i always thought the offset serrated knife felt better than the
straight serrated knife. my preference.

that said, you might be able to try the dexter-russell 9" offset
serrated knife. the softgrip model is very comfortable for long
sessions of slicing stuff. doesn't cost much either.

funny how dexter-russell knives show up in more commercial
kitchens that almost any other brand but nobody seems to
recommend them? cheap enough, light enough, sharp enough,
comfortable enough ... great for learning knife skills before
going on to something else.

anyone who has read "kitchen confidential" by anthony bourdain
MUST have come across his mentioning a 7" offset serrated knife
by f. dick from their "pro-dynamic" series. i bought one, then also
the 9" model of the same knife. then a similar offset model by icel.

either of these three models are sleeker than the dexter-russell
which seems massive by comparison. all four knives cut cleanly,
stay sharp for quite a while and are cheap enough to own.
(they must be ... i was able to buy them all myself!)

anyway ... my two cents.

[adamm]

Originally Posted by crimsonmist308

funny how dexter-russell knives show up in more commercial
kitchens that almost any other brand but nobody seems to
recommend them? cheap enough, light enough, sharp enough,
comfortable enough ... great for learning knife skills before
going on to something else.

people dont mention them because there straight edge knives suck. dont know what kind of steel is used in a dexter but iv never seen a sharp straight edge knife. There serrated is ok but thats about it. forchners are lots better for the money and the low end japanses for a few dollar more blow forchners out of the water.

[crimsonmist308]

it simply seems illogical to me that if the dexters suck that badly,
they wouldn't be showing up in all those commercial kitchens as
often as they do.

granted, forschners often are a better choice, but then again,
dexters are not the slouches you say the are either!

i own a set of fourteen fibrox forschners and also a set of twelve
sani-safe dexters (among other knives) and i take the dexters
when i go to public places where things seem to "walk off".
i have never had a problem with dexters being sharp enough to
do the job at hand, although they certainly don't hold an edge
over my hand beaten japanese ao-ki blue steel knives.

HOWEVER! for a beginner looking for something a little better
for little money, to me it makes more sense to get dexters
(or forschners, or boker arbolitos) and get a few extra shapes
to work with and cheap enough to practice sharpening skills.
after all, if you don't know how to sharpen properly, would you
REEEEAAALLLY want to practice on a new $120 wusthof 10" chef
knife or a $28 dexter??

[adamm]

why no use a 10 in wusthof, you have to learn some how to sharpen. if you learning how to sharpen and you mess up you just start over and learn from your mistakes your not going to ruin the blade. you couldnt mess up a wusthof unless you grind it down on a belt sander or try an reforge it somthing which would be stupid. now i dont think a wusthof is the best knife in the world but it beats the dexter. if your using japanese blue steel knives and why would you still you a dexter, knives only walk off if you leave them lie around plus i would never work in a place that theres a chance of a knife walking off. if theres someone shaddy i would just keep a closer eye on my stuff and make sure all my stuff is in place before every one leaves.

btw you can get wusthies for about 60 to 70 buck on ebay, i would never pay retail on a german knife.

[crimsonmist308]

Originally Posted by adamm

why no use a 10 in wusthof, you have to learn some how to sharpen. if you learning how to sharpen and you mess up you just start over and learn from your mistakes your not going to ruin the blade.

===== well .... somehow one USUALLY learns to drive a stickshift
on a cheap or used car ... NOT a new lexus or bmw. CERTAINLY one could
learn on the expensive knife, but i would bet that more people
would rather learn on the less expensive knife. and to say that
you can mess up and start all over again points to the fact
that you haven't seen how badly a knife can be messed up by
a beginner!

you couldnt mess up a wusthof unless you grind it down on a belt sander or try an reforge it somthing which would be stupid.

===== see above

now i dont think a wusthof is the best knife in the world but it beats the dexter.

===== i knew one of the west coast distributors for wusthofs and
she didn't think they were the best either ... and she sold them!
and "better" is relative. a 10" dexter is thinner than a 10"
wusthof, and as such, can often slice thinner than the wusthof.


if you're using japanese blue steel knives and why would you still you a dexter, knives only walk off if you leave them lie around

===== obviously, you haven't worked too many bbq cookoffs
or chili contests or worked as a outdoor caterer. you CANNOT
be keeping an eye on your stuff at all times!
and when i service private parties, and it is a gourmet type
gig, the clients DO NOT want to see you using cheap knives!
pull out some sexy blue steel hand beaten japanese knives,
however, and all of a sudden your rates, however high, seem
in line with the "expertise" you exhibit.
also, when i use the blue steel knives, i HAVE to be able to
wash and clean the blue steel knives or they start to rust.
at an outdoor gig, there isn't always a convenient place to wash
your blades.

plus i would never work in a place that there's a chance of a knife walking off. if there's someone shadey i would just keep a closer eye on my stuff and make sure all my stuff is in place before every one leaves.

===== not everyone has the luxury to pick and choose the gig they
work. lucky you. some of us have to work any job we can get.

btw you can get wusthies for about 60 to 70 buck on ebay, i would never pay retail on a german knife.

===== seems i don't like german knives either. sold all of my
wusthofs except for one and bought all japanese and chinese
knives.

i have read many many many posts on knives on this website and so
many seem to think you can only own one or two knives. heck ...
most people i know own lots of different clothes (casual, dress, sport,
formal, etc.), lots of different hammers (tack, claw, ball peen),
and my wife (bless her heart!) owns 19 pairs of black shoes!
different things for different reasons!

all i am saying is ... variety is the spice of life! get a couple of
good but cheap knives, some nice but more expensive knives,
and maybe one killer sweet knife. if you want to learn how to sharpen
a knife on a good knife, fine, but i just think it is more prudent to
learn on a cheaper knife.

[Coregonus]

Folllowing the thread (and enjoying it) I spotted Henckels Ad popping up on new page sometimes. That brings my memories back.. Henckels were predominant by number at most kitchen I've seen as well as on Ebay recently. Chefs most often suggested them to students and starters. You could leave them behind and nobody would steal them because everybody around had them already
They did pretty good job too. Now I wonder if anybody else noticed steel imperfections in knifes that been around last 5-6 years? I seen it a lot, even started checking around for more - and it was more. Mostly it was cavities or impurities that surfase when you sharpen knifes constantly. Edge often crumbled if you go near 20 degree bevel.
That was happening to virtually every line, 4 stars, Classic, TwinSelect, ProS, 5 star, old ones, new ones, Friodur or others. I'm pretty sure it's not in Cermax now but what that makes you think of? Dawn of brand? Imported ingredients? "Too many Hyundais recycled into european steel industry lately" as one jokes?
Ideas?

[CookingAngry]

What is going on is people are trying to imitate their japanese knife weilding friends and sharpen at more accute angles. The soft and mediocre quality of steel from Solingen isn't holding up. It doesn't make sense in some ways though. America has the propensity to make high level kitchen knives. Warthers are hard 58-60 hrc and a few custom makers make good knives, Butch harner is making me a custom carbon blade from O1 steel. For some reason the germans are still using outdated stainless that says high carbon but is aproximately 60% of what others designate as high carbon.

I would say they are saving money but the steel they use isn't cheap, it's just of a lower quality. They must divert all the money from R&D to Ad and PR.