A two part question

[sierra11b]

First of all I’d like to say hello and comment on what a nice forum this is. My name is Eric and I currently work as a self-employed mortgage broker here in Sacramento, California. The hours are whatever I want them to be and the pay is good, but it’s not something I ever pictured myself doing. It’s just not a profession I can feel proud of, you know?

I’ve always wanted to become a chef ever since I was very young. It was right there next to becoming a biologist or a solider and I already accomplished one of those with a four year enlistment. In fact, when I told my mother I was going to pursue culinary school she was the most excited I’ve heard here get in a long time. She’s always known it was something I wanted to do.

So I come to you today with a two part question… I enrolled in the Institute of Technology Culinary School in Roseville, California last week. I decided to take-up their eight month culinary arts program. I almost enrolled in their pastry program but was reluctant to do so based on my lack of knowledge for the profession.

I did not find this forum until recently. I read a handful of threads on the hours of the chef and didn’t realize how much I didn’t know on hours despite having read a book and various internet articles on the subject. I always knew that chefs had bad hours that crept into the hours of dinner and beyond. But I didn’t expect to see what I’ve seen here. A lot of the threads I read here make it seem like a social life and the ability to see family is non-existent. Is that true? To tell you the truth it really scared me. Here I am with a wife of 5yrs with the not so distant plans of having children, and I’m reading a lot of remorseful posts from people that obviously enjoy their career (or else you probably wouldn’t be on a forum). What are the typical hours of a chef? Will I ever see my family?

The other part of my question is based on what a pastry chef does? I read that they typically have better pay and that they have better hours. But I’m very confused on what types of places they’d be employed at? I wouldn’t want to get out of pastry school with zero job market. I always assumed they worked exclusively at cake and pastry shops? Can someone tell me what the pastry chef does exactly? Can you also tell me the typical hours for them? Maybe this is more of my cup of tea?

I’d greatly appreciate any information on these questions and do realize hours will be hard regardless starting out. I just want to be sure I’m not pulling similar hours 20yrs down the road during my daughter’s graduation. Although I’m very motivated to take on this career, I want to make sure I make the right choice between pastry and regular cuisine. When you’re making a career change you tend to be very cautious about what you may be getting yourself into, especially with a mortgage and a young family.

Thanks again,
Eric

[Suzanne]

Hi, Eric, and welcome to ChefTalk. Better late than never!

Have a look at the list of potential jobs in my answer to Karen90 in the Professional Catering forum. I hope it will make you feel less worried.

I changed careers into food about 10 years ago, going to culinary school after doing many other jobs -- all of which were satisfying, but not forever, if you know what I mean. After school, I cooked in restaurants, sold catering services, ran the kitchen for a food manufacturer, and consulted to a startup manufacture. Now I do editorial work on cookbooks and other food-related publications. I get to use everything I learned in culinary school as well as everything I learned in every other jobs I've ever had. And I have a lot of fun doing it!

My point is that being a restaurant chef or pastry chef is just one of many, many fulfilling paths you can take with your culinary training. And even if you ultimately decide that none of the possibilities feels right to you, and want to go back to mortgage-brokering -- you could STILL use your culinary training by specializing in working with restaurateurs! There's a real need for people who understand the industry in all the other services that they use.

[Laprise]

Hi Eric,

I can tell you by experience, a pastry chef will be home for dinner way more than a culinary art chef.
Nice restaurant work nights, so you work too... you could get a position doing breakfast somewhere and get more time at home at night... BUT in general, nice work involve night work!

Pastry is a good field, especially if you don't mind traveling... big demand for pastry chef oversee. A pastry chef will often, but not always show up in the morning, bake all day and be home for dinner. Pastry specialisation, like sugar work, chocolate work, etc... is an dying art, so big dollars and big demand for extra qualified pastry chef.

Finally, I would suggest that you work in a restaurant first before embarking into a culinary career. This may save you lots of head ach
and you could go visit your local pastry shop and do a day for free to see if this is a career for you.

*** spend enough time choosing your career, it's not for everybody. On TV it looks great, but in reality, it's a demanding jobs only for a certain kind of people.
Good luck.

[sierra11b]

I appreciate both of your responses.

Originally Posted by Laprise

Hi Eric,

I can tell you by experience, a pastry chef will be home for dinner way more than a culinary art chef.
Nice restaurant work nights, so you work too... you could get a position doing breakfast somewhere and get more time at home at night... BUT in general, nice work involve night work!

On average are we talking 5,6, or even 7 nights out of the week for an experienced chef? I know this is a very broad question and also realize a noob straight out of culinary school isn't going to get a schedule they want. Like I said before, I want to be sure I can make my son's friday night football game as a 20yr chef. I would never expect to make it as a 1,2 or even a 7yr chef. I'm more than capable of working the hours being young, the question is if I want to down the road, you know?

Originally Posted by Laprise

Pastry is a good field, especially if you don't mind traveling... big demand for pastry chef oversee. A pastry chef will often, but not always show up in the morning, bake all day and be home for dinner. Pastry specialisation, like sugar work, chocolate work, etc... is an dying art, so big dollars and big demand for extra qualified pastry chef.

What types of employment opportunities are there? Do pastry chefs get a chance to work at hotels and nice restaurants? I take it they make the deserts in the morning and commonly leave before dinner? I can certainly get used to making yummy deserts

Originally Posted by Laprise

Finally, I would suggest that you work in a restaurant first before embarking into a culinary career. This may save you lots of head ach
and you could go visit your local pastry shop and do a day for free to see if this is a career for you.

*** spend enough time choosing your career, it's not for everybody. On TV it looks great, but in reality, it's a demanding jobs only for a certain kind of people.
Good luck.

Yeah, I should have worked in a kitchen first and actually tried to get positions working at the bottom of the barrel in a kitchen. I didn't get the positions for some reason... guess having tons of mortgage experience doesn't appeal to those doing the hiring for the kitchen. About all the kitchen experience I have is KP from the Army.

As for the demand and for the stress level, all of my jobs have had a tremendous amount of stress. Sometimes I worked 100+hr weeks under very stressful conditions, especially after 9/11. So i'm hoping I'll be able to hit the ground running in this respect.

What a tough decision for me... BOTH the pastry class and the culinary class start on the 23rd of this month. I go in tomorrow for financial aide work. I suppose tomorrow is the final day to make my decision. Crap

Maybe I should switch to the pastry class and eventually take the night culinary arts class after? Would be a demanding 8 months especially if I have a pastry job by then, but I'd still have room on the GI Bill and still don't have kids yet.

[panini]

Hi Eric,
Please pay a lot of attention to what Suzanne tells you. There are many careers that a culinary education can propell.
I don't want to publically butt heads with other posters, so I make myself available through PM,email, etc. There are many upsides and downsides to both Chef and Pastry Chefs. I personally don't think one is better then the other. Challenges,hours,opportunities etc. I've run down the long 37yr culinary road and have experienced both Exec. Chef to Exec. Pastry Chef to Ownership. Your skills. personality, talent will guide you where you will find peace. It's like anything else, you have to start. You've already made it over the first big hurdle. Congratulations!!
This board will hopefully save you a few steps. Read, read, and read some more. Keep what's important to you and store it away.
There are always worries entering a new field, and it's not different in this industry. Filter what you read, sometimes, misery loves company, sometimes CT is a place to come and unload. Try to read through that.
The best of luck to you!
Panini

[cape chef]

Hi Eric,

I just want to chime in hear to echo Suzanne and Panini's thoughts.

Years ago when I started in my culinary career it really was the super long hours,weekends and holidays etc.I worked very hard over the past 27 years to put myself in a position that I can be home with my family.There are amazing opportunities for culinary grads these days that didn't really exist 20 years ago.There are many people on this board with great experience that have been able to parlay it into something more conducive to a family life style, myself included.Passion I think is the most important element to be a successful culinarian, know matter in what capacity. Eric, you might need to make some sacrifices and compromises to get the ball rolling.Anyway, I have to run, but I wish you much success.

[Suzanne]

Hey, Eric, don't discount your KP experience! I'll bet you had to do the scut work for putting out hundreds if not thousands of meal, right? Working in restaurants, school cafeterias, hospitals, even prison kitchens can be just like that. Or it can be like the best school you've ever been to -- a lot of hard work but incredible, unbelievable fun and teamwork.

Laprise is right: pastry is a good field. But so is the hot side. So is EVERYTHING to do with food, if you really love it. Don't worry about having to choose one side or the other right now, or even one venue. Panini will confirm that knowing the hot side has helped him in pastry, and Cape Chef will confirm that knowing about pastry has helped him on the hot side.

When you start out in the field after school, the whole vista ahead is really daunting. But the more experience you get -- even if you start out as a prep cook in a hospital -- if you keep your eyes open, the more you will learn about what part of the industry is best for you, and where your skills, knowledge, abilities, and interests fit best.

BTW: I checked a map, and see that you are located within a reasonable distance of a LOT of California -- so after you finish school, you'll have many possibilities to pursue. Don't worry now. Just concentrate on learning everything you can at school, make friends with all the instructors and placement staff, and keep in touch here on CT.

[sierra11b]

Thank you, Suzanne! This is exactly the reassurance I need right now. Although I believe there's a real possibility for me in pastry down the road, I'm leaning toward staying on the current course and going from there. The Culinary Arts program is from 7am to 12pm so I should be marketable for some type of job while i'm in school.

If I ever want to go into pastry school I suppose I can do so immediately after the culinary arts program, or later. Give me a chance to use the rest of this GI bill.