CIA vs. J&W

My son is a graduating high school student, with some restaurant food preparation experience. He has been accepted at both CIA and J&W Providence, with J&W offering a substantially better scholarship package. Any thoughts about the relative merits of the two schools would be appreciated. How are graduates of the schools viewed by industry?

Thanks for the help.

[Dlee]

Markp,

First off welcome to ChefTalk. The question you asked is kind off difficult to answer. You are going to see many diffrent responses to your question.

I am a J&W graduate. Why did I go to J&W? Well it was close to my home here in Miami. Did I get much out of it? Yes, but I really think that you will only what you want to get out of it (you get what you put in).

It is my personal point of view that the both schools are very good. All though CIA's "name" is a bit better. The thing is that they "all" teach the same basic skills (which is very important). What I can recommend is to check out the diffrence in the two schools when it comes to, job placement, alumni follow up, and how can your son utlize the school after he has graduated.

You now probably, have more questions now than before. Also tell your son to check out this web site. He will learn a lot.

D.Lee

Thanks for the quick response. From our visits to both campuses, I got the same impression (that both schools are very good). But I'm an engineer, so what do I know ?

Some feedback we've gotten is that J&W's curriculum produces a more well-rounded, practical student, whereas CIA is more theoretical. Also, that J&W may be better for a new high school grad, with a true college experience (clubs, frats, sports, etc.) But. it's hard to beat the CIA facilities and chefs.

[Dlee]

Markp,

Ask your son which one he likes and then send him to the other one. I am kidding.

Just wait and you will see more responses from other cheftalk members.

D.Lee

[Afra]

I have questions about this topic too. I am, as you know, currently considering attending Johnson and Wales in Denver, Colorado. Everyone, of course, knows that by now, but what you may not know is that I had heard about the CIA way before I found Johnson and Wales and tried to find out more about their programs before attempting to apply. I never really did get a chance to apply at the CIA. Since the day I found Johnson and Wales, I wonder which school is the better of the two for persons really serious and interested in pursuing a career in the culinary arts.

Over the years, I have worked with many fine young chefs who were from CIA and JW. Personally, I would recommend a school in Europe, but I know everyone cannot study abroad. If I were to choose an American school for myself, I believe I would choose JW. There are also many other fine schools to choose from. To make the proper choice, you may want to visit and sit in on some classes.

Alain,

Thanks for the suggestion about sitting in on some classes. Any reasons why you would prefer J&W?

[Greg]

One of the major differences between the two is the externship programs at the schools. At the CIA, the externship portion is spent at a school-approved private employer. J&W also offers this type of program, but the student has to apply for it and be approved. The default practical experience portion is done at the school working in student cafeterias, a school-owned restaurant, and a school-owned hotel. If your son chooses J&W, he should avoid this and get an externship; working for the school is nothing like real-life working conditions and you don't get paid. The upside to this is room and board are provided by the school.
As far as quality of education is concerned, either school does fine, depending on the eforts and desire of the student, as others have already mentioned.

[thebighat]

I know nada about the CIA, but at the age of 46, after 21 years of working in kitchens, I enrolled in the continuing ed Baking and Pastry Arts weekend program at J&W and followed it all the way to a degree. I was very impressed by the professionalism of the staff at all levels and reveled in the experience of finally being in culinary school. You definitely get out of it what you put into it. I graduated in the top .5% of all J&W students and got a great job. Granted, my experience is a little different from a kid entering just after high school, but with what J&W described in my case as "significant industry experience", I could tell when they were blowing smoke, and they never did. The faculty really cares about the students. Scholarships sound good. I've got 6 years left on the student loans.

I attend J&W Charleston and wanted to put my two cents in. I already have a degree so I came in as a transfer student. I began in sept '00 and will complete my classes this summer. I came in with no actual real world cooking experience, but about 7 years industry experience, cafeterias and serving. I am a bit older than the majority of students (26) so my experience is a bit different. I have been learning so much since I began even though there are a few courses that I think could be added and a few others deleted, but isn't that at all universities? I like the other people who posted believe that you will get out whatever you put in. If you don't put anything into this experience you will think you learned nothing, like many of my classmates. This school teaches the fundamentals and basics that will help anyone creative and ambitious enough to rise to excellence (ex. Emeril). I will be doing a co-op in the fall with Marriott in Chicago and hope that it will lead to gainful employment if we match. The co-op and externship sites vary from campus to campus, but you may be able to apply for one on another school's list. Both programs (co-op and externship) include sites outside of campus. For instance, there are restaurants and hotels outside of Charleston that are co-op sites where entrance is based on gpa. Externships include a site on campus, but also includes some major sites in Charleston such as, Charleston Place hotel, Kiawah Island, and McCrady's (which is currenly on the cover of I think restaurants and institutions if I am not mistaken). So, basically the experience at J&W can begin a fascinating entry to the field, a stepping stone to a better position, or just a place to get a piece of paper.
I don't know much about inside the CIA except for a book that I read called, "The Making of a Chef" where a journalist took classes and wrote about his experience. It was actually was the thing that pushed me into beginning culinary school. It has excellent insights into what to expect at school. You should read it. If you have any questions about this article I just wrote email me at tinay26@aol.com

hello i am a J&W student i attend the smallest of the 5 campus and am in the smallest program i go to the Norfolk Virginia campus and am in the weekend evening program the studends are mostly older and we carry the same load as other programs however we do it in 2 weekdays and 1 weekend day the staff at J&W cares about your successes and failures the staff knows your name and how your doing in other classes (advantage of a small campus) as for CIA i attended for five weeks and had to leave i can not say bad thinds about CIA but i have a better feeling at J&W as for which is better the two schools are the creme of the crop and your son will only get what he gives either school will give him the proper tools to make it if he uses them .

Thanks to all of you who were kind enough to share their insights about these two schools. After a second visit to both campuses, it was pretty clear to see that both would provide an excellent education to a committed student.

It's been great to get the perspective of folks who have been through the schooling and are now seeing the benefits in their careers. I especially appreciate the thoughts expressed by several of you that, regardless of where a person goes to school, they'll only get out of it what they're willing to put in.

So, what's the decision? Well, after a lot of thought (and a lot of terrific hospitality by both CIA and Johnson & Wales), my son has decided on J&W.

Thanks again for all of your helpful comments. You've truly got a good thin going in this forum!

[choo choo chef]

i was hoping you had also considered NEW ENGLAND CULINARY INSTITUTE. this school is smaller than the two that you mentioned above. NECI has a smaller number of students per classroom on average there are 6-7 students per class. IMAGINE 6-7 students per chef. this is the true essense of ones education. being able to work sde by side with your instructor and really understanding the essense of his/her instruction.

barnett blair

[isaac]

i am a student at the CIA and now on my externship. i am going to try to not be biased on which one is better.

cia: the campus is very pretty but it is boring over there. the chefs are la creme a la creme. the cia offers not only the best chefs, i think, but also the best resourse too. everyone wants to help you and will help you. we have many restaraunts on campus too, which you will work at if you attend there. the cia has the biggest culinary library and video library in the USA. we have a great 2 and four year program. the chefs will help you whenever you need help, offering weekend work and out of class work.

J and W: it might be cheaper but i am not sure. they have more to do like frats, ect. i find that J and W grads dont leanr the "whys" of cooking like why you do this and what jhappens if you do that, ect. to me, that is important to learn.

to me, school is school but if i had to do it all over again, i would choose the CIA. school is certinaly what you make it out to be. if you are a splacker and someone that parties all the time, then you will not get what u paid for but if you are respnsably and studie and research, then you will learn a lot more and come out more well rounded. i think, in my humble opinion, that the cia will create a well rounded student when they graduate. dont forget, cooking is just all foundamentals. as long as you understand that and have good foundation, you will be fine.

as your child where they want to go and send them there. they will be much happier. null[*]null

[Greg]

Actually, Isaac, J&W does teach cooking theory; you must have run up against some grads that weren't paying attention in class.