Frustrating knife cuts

[Greg]

The French terms for different size cuts of vegetables, et cetera. Brunoise, julienne, frite, alumette, batonette, macedoine and so on. Anneke already did some of them a few posts up from this. Funny translation story: After reading Kitchen Confidential, I picked up a new French term: dans la merde. I knew basically what it meant as it relates to pro cooking, but didn't know the exact translation. One day at work, I find out that this young, sweet waitress (who is also a school teacher) speaks French. So I ask her and she tells me exactly what it means, then gives me this stern, "you naughty boy" look that she probably usually uses only on her students. For a second, I thought she was going to make me write "I will not swear in French" 100 times on the 86 board!

Danielle-You have received some very good advice here on this thread. I'd like to add my 2 cents by saying match the size of your knife to the size of the vegetable you are cutting. I have seen many pro cooks struggle with a huge 10" chefs knife to cut up 4"potatoes or carrots that are only 1-1/2" wide. A smaller 7-8" utility knife would make the job much easier. No wonder you had no trouble with tourne-small cut-small knife. This maxim is especially true if you happen to have small hands. The other tip I may offer is try to keep your elbows relaxed by your sides and form a right angle on your cutting board (point directly in front of you) with the vegetable on the left and the knife on the right (reversed if left-handed).Do not let your shoulders hunch up or your upper body twist. This may all sound very elementary, but when cutting up food all day long, proper body mechanics can keep you from tiring out and also make precision come faster.One other note, make some time each day to lift a few light dumbell weights (8-10 lbs.). If you strengthen and tone the forearms, shoulders, biceps and triceps these tasks become a breeze.

[Isa]

You already know the terms and their meaning. I don't understand what it is you expect me to do.

The term batonnette doesn't exisit. The correct term is bâtonnet.

The origin of the word julienne it is unknown. The term julienne appeared in the Cuisinier Royal in 1722.

Macédoine is used to describe a mixture of vegetables, usually carots and tutrnips cut in small dice,3 or 4mm. Green beans cut in small chunck and green peas are usually added to the mélange.

Allumette is used to describe very very fine french fry.

Here is some input from a fellow culinary student that finished "knife skills competency." UGH! (Even though there has been plenty already )
We are using the text "On Cooking" and the instuctors wanted us to go by the definitions used there.
Julienne: 1/8in x 1/8in x 2in
(allumette- same measure when using potatoes?!?!)
Bruniose: 1/8 x 1/8 x 1/8
Batonnet: 1/4 x 1/4 x 2in
small dice: 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4in
Paysanne: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/4in
To tourner, we were issued a cool 4in "birds beak" knife in our kits which helped, but I still need lots of PRACTICE!
By the way, maybe this should be another thread, but which is the knife of choice Wusthof or Henckels? We were issued a set of Wusthof.

[This message has been edited by ChezMichelle (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Greg]

The English language borrows much from other languages and sometimes it helps me understand how to use these borrowed words if I understand their original meaning. Especially in topics like this, where we are using the same words to describe different things. So, thanks for your help, Sisi, it's great to have someone who speaks French and knows cooking here. If only you could teach me to pronounce them correctly; if you heard me speak French, it would probably make your ears hurt!

[Isa]

Not sure I was much help but if you have question I'll be happy to help. As for pronunciation, practice make perfect. If you tell me what words you have problem pronouncing I’ll try to help you.

Sisi,
I'm sure your ears must burn as mine do sometimes when I hear French terms being used by waiters in restaurants or chefs on the food network. I heard a good one today: one of the chefs where I work pronounced tuiles as "toolies". I tried hard not to laugh: it was my first day on the job. I don't think I will let them know that I'm French until we get to know eachother a bit better...

[Isa]

Anneke,

I didn't know you spoke French, where did you learn?

It is hard to believe how French is butchered sometimes. Toolies right I've heard it all.

I was born that way.

Thanks all for your great recommendations.
My cuts are getting much better.
Iam going in on Monday at 4:30 AM to finish my competencies and practice all my knifecuts ad nauseum.
Culinary boothcamp is almost over.
we have already lost 20 people in the process.
Danielle

[layjo]

Oh man! That many people have dropped out of the class? I remember when we stared out with about 20 students in my class and by 3/4 of the semester it was down to 7 or 8 people. Oh by the way, glad to hear that you are improving in your cutting techniques. And I am still also wondering why there is slightly different specifications of "cuts" in diferent cooking texts. The one that we followed was the study guied for ACF apprentice Testing.(Art & Science of Culinary Preparation)

with my notes in front of me J&W Teaches Tourne 2"long 3/4 wide with 7 sides
large dice 3/4 x 3/4 x 3/4
medium dice 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2
small dice 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/4
brunoise 1/8 x 1/8 x 1/8
fine brunoise 1/16 x 1/16 x 1/16
rondelle round or bias- round cuts vairied diameter/thickness
paysanne 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/8 round square or triangular
Batonnet 2" x 1/4 x 1/4
Julienne 2" x 1/8 x 1/8
fine juienne 2" x 1/16x 1/16

measurments also described in ACF published guidelines

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[Lovesherfood]

As everyone else here I too have just endured the fussy French art of cutting veges today. And I tell you, by the end of the class I wanted to kill anyone who was French or spoke French. (No offense intended) Oh well I suppose practise makes perfect. Or causes you to go completely insane.

[waterchef]

I am ok at all those other cuts but for some reason I have huge problems with my cuts as far as my tourne is concerned!!! Any side cuts I can take or ways to make it easier would help out?!!!

[Sleepy_Dragon]

It's my favorite knife cut.

This may or may not help you, but see what you think. The general idea is to break down the cut into one simple task, repeated 7 times. Thought of this way, it's the same as doing any other cut, except you add a curve to it.

Start at one end, then aim for the fat middle with one smooth cut. Then, turn off your brain. Now do what you just did in reverse going from the fat middle to a tapered bottom which is a mirror of the top. The point is to make the upper half look just like the lower half, provided you made the upper half look good from the get-go.

In order to get the other six sides to come out, remember it is still the exact same knife cut, but offset from the previous cut.

To visualize the offset, think about what the top and bottom of the tourne should look like once finished: septagons, right? For a septagon to be an equilateral polygon (a.k.a. a good looking cut!), each corner must be 129 degrees.

To visualize what 129 degrees looks like, think about a 90 degree angle, basically a "L". If you were to divide 90 in half, you get a 45 degree angle. Now imagine a mirror of the 45 degree angle, which is 135 degrees. At the size of any of the three basic tournes, 129 is just a hair shy of 135.

Which is another way of saying, after you make your first of the seven sides, go back to the top of the tourne and angle your knife at 90 degrees from that cut. Then move it out to 135. Then pull it in a hair to get 129. Then think again about the first cut you made and repeat it, from top to fat center, turn off brain, and do a copycat in reverse to finish from fat center to bottom.

Repeat another five times, and it's done. Takes practice of course, but the main thing is to make sure the first cut is a good one. After that, it's a matter of rotating your food the same degrees each time. Eventually you can tell by sight and feel what 129 degrees should look like. In my (right handed) hands, it involves always having the ridge at the same place against my left thumb.

Pat