Does education matter more than practical experience in the culinary world?
I was given a lot of muni bonds once, and I want to auction my own odd lot off at eBond USA.com to pay for one of the top academies. Don't know which one yet. My family insists that I should try not to touch the bonds and just work my way up in restaurants. That sounds like it might take a million years. If I buy an education now, won't I likely make it back when the first job I get it is for a much better restaurant than if I had to start as a prep cook somewhere?
Hugh

Listen to your family and save those bonds for when you're old! There are a million people coming out of cooking school these days. Though they're not all great they are a dime a dozen and no matter how good you are when you come out of school you're still not much more than a prep cook. You must pay your dues my friend. The chances of you paying back your education with your first few jobs are slim to none. I worked at the finest hotels in the country and don't think that you're going to be getting those high salaries that the schools tell you that you'll get. It's a sales pitch. A successful Chef that makes the top dollar works 60-80 hours a week, works in a hotel that does annual business in the millions and produces probably several thousand meals a day. A successful restauranter is a top notch business person and understands a **** of a lot more than 3 ways to make a souffle! Irregardless there a ton of talented people out there, just look at my colleagues on this site. You would do well in my opinion to get conventional financing for school, keep your eyes and ears open and realize that there's more than one way to do just about everything and the right way is always going to be your bosses way (at the time) no matter what you may think about how to do it. One day you will take everything that you learned from these people assimilate it to your style and become a success if you desire. But be adventurous, travel and realize that you can learn something from everyone and save your money up for when you get old! Nothing worse than an old, crochety chef that has to keep working to support their fine wine habit!

[UniChef]

chrose is right. You're still going to have to work your way up even after you've blown 35k at the CIA.

I've been in the business 20 years. I much prefer training someone who had no formal schooling than a new student who tells me "that is not the way they taught me in class". It takes years to figure out the best ways to do a project.You can learn more from a couple of good chefs, then use that info when you are in charge. That puts you way ahead of students.

If you are wondering if I have a bias,I do. I have a degree in Hospitality Administration.Yes it opened doors for me,but in many ways I found the 'school of hard knocks' has taught me so much more.

[layjo]

Hello Hughrob and welcome to the cafe! Here are a few links to previous post you might want to read here on cheftalk concerning your question. And yes more than likely you will have to start out as along the lines of a prepcook with or without the education.


http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000099.html
http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000100.html
http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000108.html
http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000046.html

[This message has been edited by layjo (edited 11-26-2000).]

[Nick.Shu]

my first instinct tells me to be at least trained by someone good and take it from there - whether or not that you go to school.

However, there is a point that you may get to that in order to progress further you may need to go to school - this depends greatly on talent.

In my own personal experiences, in order for myself to evolve in this industry, i have gone ahead in training to the next level (given that technical training in Aus depends as much on training as well as experience). This also reduces the need to constantly change jobs seeking better training.

So, the answer is: i believe that both schooling/technical education and practical experience goes hand in hand rather than in a versus situation, you just have to be selective in your judgement and use it as necessary.

[This message has been edited by Nick.Shu (edited 12-02-2000).]

Yes, I agree with chrose and unichef. Although school with teach you fancy techinque and all the classical words, the cannot prepare you to stand on a hot line and pump out hundreds of meals all cooked right with waitstaff yelling about railing food they forgot, this wasn't cooked right etc.

I will never forget my first job after I left school. the kitchen manager was a spanish guy who learned by going up the ranks. I was mincing parsley or something with my 100 dollar knife. rocking it not making any noise just like i was taught makining sure it was perfect. He came up to me and said ane you crazy we have to feed 1000 people tonight. He then took 2 knives in one hand and started pounding away. in 30 sec. he was done what would have taked me 20 min. It was amazing. shortly after that I took an apprenticeship under another chef and learned more every day on the line than i ever did in school.

The moral is learn the hard way, but be selective and find a good chef who knows and loves good food and make him your god. he can teach you all you need and leave you hungry for more

[Katherine]

After you get your kitchen training, then study a little business, and you have the seed money you'll need when you want to start your own business.

personally, i'm a muni owner too and though i'd take everything we suggest with a grain of salt, here is what i would do. i would go get your bonds evaluated at ebondusa. find out just what they're worth--did you see how to do this through the evaluation section? very simple and automated--then discuss with your parents how much you're going to invest in school and what you're going to do with the rest. perhaps if you took half of it for tuition and put half into mutual funds or blue chips, they'd feel more comfortable with your decision.
J/L

there are a lot of diffferent jobs that involve cooking knowledge and they require different backgrounds, so it really depends on what your goal is - there is a difference between a kitchen manager and a chef. I think that most culinary schools are guilty of grossly misrepresenting the necessity and the benefit of a culinary degree - if you think you're going to pay off your student loans with your first job out of school you are sorely mistaken. In the world of fine dining restaurants, your resume is everything, I really do believe that where you worked is more important than where you schooled. It's for this reason that a lot of the more well known restaurants in bigger cities pay their line cooks less than squat - I'm talking $7-$8/hr, and I'm talking guys with monster skills and technique willing to work for that kind of money. What the cooks get in return is a killer reference after a year or so. The chef who I work for got where he is by going and working for people for free (he makes about a 100 g's now). In the European system, that is the only way to get any kind of "culinary education". The closest thing they have to culinary schools there are more like high schools.

[Nick.Shu]

i still stand by my stance that schools have their place. Why, you ask - simple, they accelerate the learning process - if you dont have the basic skills, how can you do it. You must be a little mistaken in the belief that your chef will be there virtually all of the time to coach and teach you.

The important thing is to remember that, is yes, schools wont teach you everything. However, cooking is a little easier with the skills that enable you to use problem solving skills etc, in order to get the job done.

Chefs dont always like being asked why and dont always know the answers. By this token, not everyone knows everything and schools are in place to try and correct this.

The basic message is this: if you do school, at least you have a chance of understanding better what you do.

This is a really tough call, and it's one you'll probably have to make on your own, but my instinct would be to get an education while you have a chance, and then be open to learning new things when you get to work in restaurants, because everybody has a different way of doing things and it will just be a matter of time before you find your style or groove. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to take culinary training at our local college, because even though I'm not the best cook in my restaurant, I have a different view of my work than the guys who worked thier way up in the restaurant only.