Best Culinary School In USA - Where?

Where is the "best" culinary school in the USA? Is there a top 5 or 10 list available?

Thank you,
Robert

[Nicko]

That is a tough one, you make actually get some controversy going here as many people have different oppinions.

Many people feel that the Culinary Institute of America is the best, while others feel that Johnson & Whales is the best. The best way to think about culinary schools is not which is the best, but rather which will give you the best foundation in the basics of cooking. The school itself doesn't really matter, what matters is what you walk away with in terms of knowledge. Most of the chefs that I have admired over the years never spent one day in a culinary school, they were just dedicated. In all honesty I think if a person were dedicated they could go to a good local community college or technical school get a good foundation, and at the same time work in a great restaurant under a good chef who will train you well. I think you would end up in two years with just as good an education as someone who spent $30,000 at the CIA or J&W.

Just my thoughts. (I am a CIA grad by the way. It is a great school, but it doesn't make you a chef.)

[Greg]

I agree with Nicko. CIA has a reputation for turning out grads with attitudes. J&W doesn't have that reputation, but, as a J&W grad, I can tell you that some do graduate with the "I have a degree, therefore I am a chef" attitude. The point I'm trying to make is that, no matter where you go, your own attitude, ambition and commitment will determine your success. Remember this quote from Mohammed Ali; it will help get you through your career as well as your life in general: "I try to learn as much as I can, because I know nothing compared to what I need to know".

[Nicko]

Greg,

I couldn't agree with you more, you said it all. When did you graduate? I finished in 91'.

[m brown]

Mr. Gourmet,
As a graduate of J&W and past instructor at NYIT, Peter Kumps and NY restaurant schools I have to say, you only get out of it what you put in. There are many regional schools worth their salt. Find one near by that fits your economic glove. If you want to learn and do really well, you will. Many of the best chefs I have worked with went to the school of real life!
Good Luck!

[Greg]

I graduated in '95. For the record, I've worked with two CIA grads and neither had the reputed "CIA attitude". As a matter of fact, they were two of the most talented people I have had the pleasure to work with.

[m brown]

The List:
I think the problem with a list is it is so subjective!

1. J&W and CIA both have branches all over the country
2. French Culinary NYC
3. California Culinary SF
4. New England Culinary
5. Le Cordon Bleu, now all over the country and Paris
6. NYrestaurant school

Check out Shaws guide, you'll find the link on cheftalk homepage.

As a graduate from a small school in western Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Academy of Culinary Arts, (It happens to be one of the colleges of the main University), I have to agree with the others in one subject, Its not where you go but what you learn and how you apply yourself. I have run into many many grads of both the CIA and J&W who frankly can't boil water. The worst was a kid who was snobby rich, I think he went to the CIA to spend money, he couldn't even hold a knife. So in a nut shell go where you can afford to go and learn as much as you can from the chefs there. Small schools can offer you a lower teacher to student ratio but a larger school can offer you top NAMED chefs, they might not know more but the have the reputation.

For the most part I must agree with the other replys. I just recieved my AAS Degree in Culinary Arts, From J&W. The biggest advantage to CIA and J&W is the industry recognition and connections. However, Love for what you do, hard work and dedication are key. A large percentage of the other students I graduated with were at school to party on Mommy and Daddy's funding. There are a lot of "Grads" who don't know much and that works for and against you. If a lot of J&W grads can't pull there weight in the real world it could lessen the value of your degree, however recruiters look for the cream of the crop and having a lot of clows in your class cuts the competition for those top jobs. A degree from either CIA or J&W can open some important doors for your career, but ultimately it's what you put into it. Love what you do and you'll be successful.

[Pete]

With all the responses that contain J&W and CIA I felt that I had to praise the school I went to: New England Culinary Institute (NECI). With small class sizes it was impossible to "just skate by". The chefs could watch your every move. The school also have many public outlets so most of the cooking you do is for the public and with that comes the constant stress of cooking for paying customers not just your fellow students. NECI also requires that you do 2 internships giving you a chance to check out areas of the country that you might like to relocate to on a permanate basis someday. Overall it's a great school and if I had to do it all over again I would definately choose it again.

As a current student of the C.I.A., currently on externship, I will openly admit that there are quite a few people at the Institute that don't belong there. There is a large population there that are "career changers", and are looking for a new career, and found a culinary school to get them jump started. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I have to say, if you can't cook...the CIA will eat you alive. Many of the grads that I have met from the CIA are extremely capable chefs, and are very competent. However, where other schools focus on quantity, the CIA is more focused on quality, and any instructor there will openly admit that. JWU is known for producing graduates with more quantity-orientation. IUP (Indiana University of Pennsylvania)has a reputation for focusing on cold kitchen, such as Garde Manger, and the financial end of the operation. And the CIA is more concerned with the QUALITY of food, as well as a strong focus on wines, and matching the two perfectly. The CIA's Bachelor program offers the necessary financial training, as well as other education required to run a restaurant. While NO school is going to make you a chef immediately, some are better than others. I am obviously going to have a prejudice and say that the CIA is the best of the 3 (and anyone that says the French Culinary Institute is completely crazy), but the best advice I can give is go where you're gonna feel at home. (I've taken 1 semester at JWU, and it was the most disgusting kitchens that I've ever seen...)

[culinarian247]

Originally posted by m brown
The List:
I think the problem with a list is it is so subjective!

1. J&W and CIA both have branches all over the country
2. French Culinary NYC
3. California Culinary SF
4. New England Culinary
5. Le Cordon Bleu, now all over the country and Paris
6. NYrestaurant school

Check out Shaws guide, you'll find the link on cheftalk homepage.

Curious. What was the reasoning in ranking the FCI above LCB? I can see CIA as a top school as well as J&W. My ranking (as you say, subjective):

US Schools:
1. NECI
2. Scottsdale Culinary Institute
3. J&W (pick one)
4. ICE (Peter Kump's)
5. Art Institute (pick one)

International Schools:
1. Le Cordon Bleu
2. Ecole Superieure de Cuisine Francaise
3. Ecole Ritz-Escoffier
4. A European apprenticeship

[Moxiefan]

A couple of points...

First, a guy I work with these days who, though he never went to school, is a mighty good cook who I respect a lot, brought up the interesting point that I might want to consider going where the food is, instead of where the names are. To his way of thinking that meant California, but I suppose it could be anywhere. The point is well taken that in a place like Hyde Park or Montpelier its got to be hard to learn very much about the production end of things... work directly with growers, that sort of thing. I can say for certain that Montpellier doesn't have anything like an ethnic market. Does better ingredients make for more learning? Also, one has to cook for an audience, and is Montpellier going to furnish a good one, or am I going to learn the masterful preparation of Cod while weekly throwing out cases of ahi-ahi and fois gras? (Hyperbolic, I know... and I still want to go to Burlington... Maybe I'll check out that cali thing on externship, and I left my heart in Montreal.)

Second, about this LCB thing... What's their deal, anyway? Is there an LCB in Paris, still? I thought it was London, Sydney and Ottowa, plus the miscelaneous American "affiliations." I visited one of those "affiliates" by the way, and was none too impressed... I visited on a Saturday Morning... the tourguide was quite late, the grounds were a mess, the kitchen was shut but lots of stuff hadn't been put away, and if it had been put away, it would have been put away in securely locked cages (who is the fiend trying to steal your gallon cans of crushed tomatoes, anyway?), and their dining room looked an awful lot like a hospital cafeteria and not at all like a real restaurant. Now, I've never met any of their graduates, who may be wonderful, talented people... Of course, that was another thing that cheesed my off about that tour... I DIDN'T MEET ANY OF THEIR GRADUATES, STUDENTS OR CHEFS, which seemed less than informative and I surely would have like to have done, and, of course, I DIDN'T EAT ANY OF THEIR FOOD. What's up with that? At NECI, there was muffins and coffee, at least. Muffins and coffee, in fact, that made me sit up and say "Wow, this is great coffee," and "I've never made anything as good as this muffin at home, obviously these guys DO know something I don't, maybe I could come and learn here."

Sorry, I've digressed. Maybe it was just an off day for a tour, and maybe I'll go back sometime and check it out again (just around the corner, after all), but, point of story: LCB, very suspicous in my books... or at least that one afiliate was, but then, what's the LCB selling its good name for anyway?

Just a thought.

[culinarian247]

Yes, LCB is still in Paris. They've been in France since 1895. How much LCB bashing goes on in here?!! Too much in my opinion. If anyone on this board was a graduate of the international program, I'd understand their reluctance to tell. Do I have a problem with US culinary schools? No. In fact some I even love!!

What often bothers me is the bad talk of the various schools. You say LCB is suspect. You are entitled to our opinion. But would you have dismissed so easily say, Johnson & Wales (all of them), had you visited but one school? I can understand you not "feeling" the school you visited.

[pattycake]

For what it's worth, I went to Scottsdale Culinary Institute in Scottsdale AZ, (before it was affiliated with LCB), and I have to say I LOVED it. I can't really compare it with the others that have been mentioned, since I didn't attend either CIA or J&W..but SCI was at the time, fairly small (this was in 1994) class size was about a dozen students, give or take.

Just my opinion, thanks!