Tatoos

[asnutter]

I agree with your freedom to hire/not hire an employee...
Heck, I'm all for it!!!
If the reason for the "not hire" is based SOLELY on someone's appearance, then the legality of the not hire comes into question...
If the company has a policy in place, then there is a built in C.Y.A., so to speak...
Of course this discussion has a multitude of "what if's", "circumstances" and personal biases which will always cloud the situation...
All things being equal, (sounds like an economics class), appearance, race, and religion should NEVER factor into the hiring process...

[panini]

I understand.
I agree with everything you state, BUT, it is also my job to protect the business in making sure this hire will not effect co workers, customers, etc.
I think the CYA language in large business brings more problems then they resolve. My CYA involves not disclosing my reasons for the not hire. Ultimately it's my descisions that make the business a success or not. If my descisions involve race, color, appearance etc. eventually this will catch up with you.
unfortunately appearance is a factor in employment. Otherwise I would be a great model

[asnutter]

Originally Posted by panini

I think the CYA language in large business brings more problems then they resolve. My CYA involves not disclosing my reasons for the not hire. Ultimately it's my descisions that make the business a success or not.

I agree with your sentiment entirely...Especially if you are the owner/proprietor...Having not had the luxury of being my own boss, I must defer to my experience with corporate operations...

[chris1980]

I disagree with the teacher's decision to force the student out of the class. Really, the student is just there to learn, has paid their tuition, and unless they are a disruption or a poor student, should have equal right to class time even if their hair is purple.

But, that's in the education system where you are paying to be there. In the real world, it ain't going to cut it. The chef should have allowed the student in the class but pulled him aside for his own benefit and told him that unless he gets rid of the tattoo, he'll be unemployed (and professors won't be recommending him to any potential employers).

As students, especially in elementary and high school, kids are taught to express themselves, be happy with themselves, and to shrug off the negative opinions of others. The real world doesn't work that way. When looking for a job you have to conform to what is professional and expected in your industry. No one cares about your individual expression.

Would you hire someone if they came to an interview or to work wearing dirty old pants or a shirt with Calvin peeing on a Ford sign?

Welcome to the real world! Get rid of the tattoo or get a job where tattoos are expected (like a tattoo shop). The tattoo was a huge mistake, and I just hope you don't have a scar after you fix it.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by chris1980

I disagree with the teacher's decision to force the student out of the class. Really, the student is just there to learn, has paid their tuition, and unless they are a disruption or a poor student, should have equal right to class time even if their hair is purple.

This particular incident wasn't in the classroom, it was at a country club that was using some temp workers from a culinary school.

[Jim]

As students, especially in elementary and high school, kids are taught to express themselves, be happy with themselves, and to shrug off the negative opinions of others

Careful, careful making generalizations. I am a High School culinary teacher and I can tell you (as can my students), that I will kick the crap out anybody that gets out of line in the process of 'expressing themselves.' As a matter of fact, most of the teachers in my school will do the same (since we are in a technical high school.) The whole "careful or you will bruise their self-esteem" argument holds little water with me. Just the opposite, really. I do not offer 'negative opinions,' rather I provide honest insight; love it or hate it, here it is. Students are told, rather frankly, if you don't meet the standard, be it for metal rings stuck in your eyeball or hair sticking up like a rooster's comb or because you can't handle a knife, you will not have the same opportunity for success as somebody that knows how to shave, tuck in their shirt, and prepare mirepoix.

[panini]

Quote, Jim.
"Just the opposite, really. I do not offer 'negative opinions,' rather I provide honest insight; love it or hate it, here it is. Students are told, rahter frankly, if you don't meet the standard, be it for metal rings stuck in your eyeball or hair sticking up like a rooster's comb or because you can't handle a knife, you will not have the same opportunity for success as somebody that knows how to shave, tuck in their shirt, and prepare mirepoix."

This is what I was trying to express in the hiring process about my responsibility to protect co workers, business, customers, etc. Jim just says it better, as usual.
Expressing yourself, kinda goes on the list of things to do on your own time.

[Jim]

Jim just says it better, as usual.

awwww.... I'm humbled!

[MattFin]

Agreed - as a chef who wanted a chef's tattoo for some time, I knew I had to balance my need for self expression with the fact that not everyone would be accepting of it were it on permanent display. So rather than place it on my forearms or hands or whatnot, I hid my tattoo on the back of my shoulder. My friends and family can see it and love it, but the random customer need not ever know it is there in case that is something that would be off-putting to them.

[jigz369]

So the chef had a problem with your facial tattoos. Fair enough, I would too. As much as we like to think we live in a progressive, accepting society such is not the case. People judge a book by it's cover all the time. I had a difficult entering the "corporate" world before I removed my 2 ear-rings so I expect you'll never get there with facial tattoos. I also have tattoos but they are hidden and can be seen only if I want them to be. Get over yourself, get some laser tattoo removal, reapply and then judge if they still refuse you. Until then, accept that you're going to have a really tough time in the real world.... school's over now. Just my opinion though.

[Littlemama]

whooow...what else ya got goin on there mattfin???

tats...yes , well. discrete to say the least....be carefull where you place them....unfortunately, you may offend someone depending where you put them.....it is really up to you......for some it is their culture....

for others a fashion statement. and yes others want to make a statement. just as you have the right to express...well others...they have the right not to like what you got going on....just be aware of that....

oh and yes....mom that I am....I have one....WHere???? I'LL NEVER TELL.

[damack]

can you post a pic of your facial tatoo im wondering what it looks like and will judg for my self,

i worked with a aferican american man that had tribal tatoos on his face, but this was notin a high end place and from what i have herd he is working in a corprit job, but thats because his tatoos are cultral, sorry but you just decided to put flames on your face, time to get over your self get it removed and put the fire out, then and only then you might get hired,

[Risque Cakes]

Originally Posted by panini

I don't want to muddy the waters, but as an employer, I have the right to hire or not hire anyone, period.
As an applicant, you have the same rights, to work there or not.
pan

I totally agree with this post. I also will NOT allow my employees to bring in their cell phones into the shop, they are allowed to give their parents the phone number here for emergencies and..I will NOT allow ANYONE to "check their e-mail for a minute".

One of the reasons that I wouldn't hire someone with visible tattoos and no one seems to have brought this up, Tattoo parlors...just like the food service industry is regulated....

How do I know that you got your tats at a Clean, sanitary place and are not suffering from any form of Hepatitis?

My cousin is now on the list of liver transplants at the age of 40 because she got her ear pierced at the mall.

So, for you young ones out there, feel free to express yourself...but don't witch and moan when someone expresses themselves by refusing to hire you.

adding:

don't get me wrong I have a respect for tattoos if they are part of a culture as many of my friends are Maori artists and a lot of them have their faces tattooed, but I would be very honest with anyone that I would hire and if they are very qualified and there is NO one else with their skills or better...I would hire them for the back of house only.

As a potential employer, my first loyalty is to my customer, and my customer only...who is paying the overheads, and not to someone that felt it was COOL or CUTE to fall in step with some fad. My .02 cents...not worth much, but thrown in the pot anyway..lol

[claytonj]

why would you get a tattoo on your face? Is that the only place you could express yourself? You had to know that a tattoo on your face would cause issues.

I personally have 7 tattoos (and plan on getting more) but no one would ever know unless I took my shirt off.

[Jim]

So, for you young ones out there, feel free to express yourself...but don't witch and moan when someone expresses themselves by refusing to hire you.

Well said. I, too, have ink, but you would never know. It is personal; I am not trying to make a statement. Not to say that you can't make a statement, but just be prepared (like the guy with a purple mohawk, the girl with pierced nose, lip, face, eyerbrow, etc) to deal with the downside of such decor. As a customer, I don't want to see it in a professional atmosphere. Just like I wouldn't want to see graffitti on the walls of bathroom... time and place for everything.