[kleraudio]

Hey guys, I KNOW Sous is not the beginning, what I meant was are you considered a chef when you hold the title "Sous chef"? Thats what I meant when I said that.

Oh yea, my friend was a Sous chef at the palms and he workd from 7a-12p 7 days a week!!! And for some reason, I WANT to do that....... :-)

Thanks for all the advice guys, I think I will buy a book later this week and start to do some serious homework in my own kitchen!

Jim

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by chef.ESG.73

In short NO !!!!!

Are all 164 of your posts as informative as this one?

From what I've seen, kleraudio, where you've worked and who you know are ultimately more important than where (and if) your formal education took place. I know cooks that never went to school, worked at the same restaurant for five years, got promoted to sous then exec, and went from there to head up other restaurants in town. I also know cooks who dropped 55k in LCB affiliated schools and are still making $10.50 an hour ten years later.

It's what you put into your education (be it formal or not), the people you meet and the references you have, and your overall professionalism. Based on that, I would think that a two or three year apprenticeship program would be better than "just" and AAS degree. With most apprenticeship programs you can earn a degree along with it, but at the same time that you're earning that degree you're working for a (hopefully) respected chef and a respected restaurant, earning money while you're working, AND putting your school knowledge to practical use everyday. It doesn't get much better than that.

[natividad]

you get out of it what you put into it. i've hired and fired people from some of the best schools in the country, alot of them were completely useless. one of the best chefs i've ever worked for graduated from a community college cooking program, he was as well read in informed as any chef i know. all a degree does is get your resume looked at, beyond that he who works the hardest and longest will eventually win out.

[Phaedrus]

No matter where you go to school you're going to have to learn a lot on your own. Culinary school will get you up to speed a bit if you have no experience, but if you already do you can definitely work your way up as high as you want without a degree.

[ED BUCHANAN]

I graduated a community college in 1960, but then apprenticed in New York Hotels and Europe. After working in many places, In 1980 or so became Ex.Chef at largest all banquet /catering facility in U.S. then went on to teach culinary arts. So yes you can, in fact you can become anything you want if you have the drive and are willing to do what is required. Good Luck

[pembroke]

Learn on the job. Buy the French Laundry Cookbook and cook it. Buy all the good books and cook them. Learn kitchen finance because an excellent chef with no financial skills is as usefull as a kitchen porter. Move every 12-18 months and step down to work up. Believe in yourself and have confidence.

[foodpump]

Originally Posted by chef.ESG.73

In short NO !!!!!

As the French would say,

"Boule-cheet"

But really, the answer to the original poster's question is, It all depends.

It depends on the definition of "Executive Chef"

Executive Chef of say, 3 sattelite kitchens, a production facility and multiple F&B outlets? This is a true definition of an "Executive Chef", a Chef who manages more than one kitchen.

One way to go about it is to get as much schooling as possible, not just cooking, but HR, accounting, and biz mngmt and lay that at the Employer's desk. But honestly, do you think the employers are going to let someone with all that schooling and no track record control all that manpower and infrastructure? The future/potential earnings of over a couple a million?

Not likely

They want to see a track record. Paper certificates are only the icing on the cake, it's what you did that counts. Not what you can potentially do, what you did, and what you didn't do, tells employers more than what you can do

What you managed in the past, how you managed it, how you grew the business, what challanges you overcame, where your shortcomings are, how you address them.

You "graduate" from a small business, to a larger with more challanges, more knowledge required and gained, then on to larger ones. No intelligent employer will put someone in charge of a large operation if that person doesn't have previous experience with a similar-albeit smaller-operation.

You will need schooling for higher management, cooking is the easy part: Cook, work, read, experiment, read more, cook more, cook under pressure, cook with obstacles, cook with creativity . That's easy.

You can get night classes in HR, in accounting, and in biz mngmt--at C.C's, correspondence, what ever. You will need this, as it's impossible to learn it all first hand, but how you learn it--whether a C.C. or University degree is not important.

Hope this helps

[leeniek]

The replies to this thread are really interesting to me. I'm slowly learning that someone can be a chef and have no formal training save for what they have learned on the job if they posess certain qualities and a passion towards food and I think I may be either close or already there when it comes to my work and my cooking. But the formal schooling will give me an edge that I might need down the road so I am still on the fence... I'm not sure if I want to be the exec in a hotel... not my cup of tea but I would like to have my own pc business or even my own restaurant once my kids are grown so the schooling might help me in that dept.

[PeteMcCracken]

The "passion" and cooking skills are the EASY part! Especially if you're looking to own and operate your own business.

You need to know:

• Business finance
• Business law
• Personel management skills
• Inventory control
• Food costing
• Payroll management and scheduling
• Employee training
• and a host of other skills.

There is a real simple way to make a million dollars in the food service industry....start with four million!

[rat]

You can be a chef regardless of what school you go to, all it takes the determination and drive to do it. Find the best chefs you can to learn from and then go from there.
Read voraciously and try to eat out to try new foods as often as finances permit.
The common misconception is that upon graduation you are a chef, not so.

I recall Escoffier never went to culinary either...

As an exec chef who did not go to a "fancy" school I find the arrogance of many of the new generation of CIA or FCI grads a let down with a sense of entitlement that is unbelievable. I had to fire one girl in pastry who refused to help mop up the floor at then end of the night because she "did not spend X amount of money to mop floors".

[maniclowery]

Originally Posted by chef.ESG.73

In short NO !!!!!

Hmmmmm..........If i am doing interviews for an employee, and have a choice between someone with 4 year degree, and no restaurant experience. The other person would be the guy or gal with out a college degree experience and 10 years in the industry. I would take the guy with 10 years kitchen experience. In my 20 some odd years in the industry I have seen many a college grad without a clue what the restaurant world actually entailed. Their isn't a college in the world that can teach you sense of urgency. I would say the two together would be best and ideal. Many successful people did not go to school. Myself included. I did not spend one day in college, however the college will send students to me to train for internships. The restaurant i work for was just put on playboys "A" list as a one of the top ten restaurants in the U.S. and i will say this one more time, I have no college training!

[shroomgirl]

Some of the best execs I've worked with graduated from STL CC.....they had drive, each worked under extrodinary chefs and did "their time".

I've worked with CIA, J&W, SFC, London CB.....
*funny, there is a handful of chefs here that worked at Daniels....they have war stories, and each does wonderful work.

I didn't go to culinary school.

[maniclowery]

Originally Posted by shroomgirl

Some of the best execs I've worked with graduated from STL CC.....they had drive, each worked under extrodinary chefs and did "their time".

I've worked with CIA, J&W, SFC, London CB.....
*funny, there is a handful of chefs here that worked at Daniels....they have war stories, and each does wonderful work.

I didn't go to culinary school.

This is true. some of the best chefs i worked under were from C.I.A. Most of what i know i gathered from a multitude of chefs. I worked at a bistro in rockford il that had in upwards of 11 C.I.A. graduates their spread out among 5 resturants in the northern il area. It is very possable to be succesfull without school.

[Filthy Habitz]

School can't hurt. But experince is worth alot more then a peice of paper from a community school. Lots of school's are credited either. If you have no experince go to school. If you have over 5 years find a good chef to apprentice under and you'll learn alot more and save alot of money as well.

[ChefBillyB]

If the Sous is working from 7am to 12am 7 days a week then the Chef is making love to his wife........Bill