looking for an answer

[coolJ]

Well, if I could first of all word this post so that I don't look like a complete goof, (i've rewritten this thing about three times already LOL :>). My question is about savory pies, I want to make some steak and kidney pies and freeze them, so I can just take them out when I want, slap 'em in the oven an let it go from there, but the glitch is this, I don't want to use pastry, i want to use pate dough, but I don't know whether to freeze them with the shells uncooked, or whether seeing as I am using a dough, they should be cooked off before freezing, If I were using pastry, this would be a simple answer. Any answers/help is appreciated
Thanks,
Jeff

[chef from va]

my advice is to look into the pie and pastry bible that might give you the answer you seek.

[Jock]

Just FYI, traditionally back home, steak & kidney peis are covered with a suet crust. That's a rough pastry made with beef suet.

Jock

[phatch]

It seems to me that the issue is one of water and what it's going to do while frozen in the pate dough.

Now, the dough recipes I'm looking at are fairly straightforward, the only ingredient that concerns me is the raw eggs. My concerns are that the eggs will denature under freezing to a degree that their binding power is lost and the dough characteristics will suffer in the thaw and cooking.

Well, suffer more than it would if you froze it with a cooked dough. When it gets right down to it, I'd cook the whole thing and freeze the finished product. Easier to reheat, should store more stably and so on.

Food safety issue too. What temp and for how long do you plan on storing them? A mixed raw egg in raw dough sets off my safety instincts at the temperatures available to me.



Phil

[thebighat]

My latest bedtime reading has been The Food of Britain from the Time-Life series from the 70"s, great books if you can find them. Those kind of pies are called raised pies because they use a hot water crust that can be molded into a decorative edge. I don't know about the eggs, but if I can retrieve this book from under the bed, and if you pm me with your email address, I could scan it into a pdf file and send it to you. (Unless that runs into all kinds of copyright things that cheftalk doesn't want to be hassled by, I don't know. There's always a copy machine and snail mail.)

[coolJ]

Thank you all for the info, this will help.

[mike]

Jock & Bighat...I dont want to be pedantic but my great great granny had a pasty & pie shop that looked like something ou of Dickens. I made my first pie aged 6 in the backroom used for prep.

Watercrust is used for porkpies & suetcrust aka tivoli for any pie & i love these pies but they are not traditionally used for snake & pigmy pie !

Use a flour (2 parts) lard & butter (1 part half n half),salt pepper & water. Well cook your mix & cool. Make top & bottom crust,fill & bake.
You can freeze before or after baking it doesnt really matter but I dont think pastry ever tastes as good after cooking,freezing,defrosting & heating.

[Jock]

I guess it depends on what school you went to. My mum (who was from Liverpool) always made Kate & Sidney pies with suet crust. I don't think I ever ate one that wasn't.

However, I shall defer to your great granny's knowlege and accept her method.

I stiil like the suet crust but you can't get Atora shredded suet here. Only fresh and only then if you know the butcher and ask him to save you some. I've used fresh in things like Christmas pudding but the results are not the same. I haven't found a good substitute that gives the flavor and texture of Atora.

For the non Brits, Atora sells 8oz packages of dried, shredded suet. When a recipe calles for a quantity of suet, it generally means Atora.

Jock

[thebighat]

I feel like Uncle Leo--"I'm an old man. I'm confused...." I went back and looked at the book. The suet crust goes on the steak and kidney pudding, (i their version) and the raised crust was on a ham and veal pie with hardboiled eggs and pickled walnuts. I'm dying to make a Christmas pudding, but the suet thing now really has me confused. What if I got fresh suet and zipped it up in the processer with some of the sugar?

[Jock]

I've done that except I chill it in the freezer for 20 minutes or so then put it through the meat grinder on the KA mixer. You only need about 2/3 to 3/4 of the suet called for in the recipe (assuming the recipe is British and calls for suet in the first place) because the shredded suet is much dryer than fresh.

Otherwise I use the Whole Foods equivalent of Crisco (without the hydroginated fat.) You just want enough to keep the pudding moist as it steams.

I make my pudding the Sunday after Thanksgiving to give it a month to mature. I serve it with either whipped cream or zabayon.

Jock

[mike]

Spot on guys...the suet pastry is for pudding & the short for pie.
No atora over there..god how do you make dumplings!!

Heres one you might be able to help me with.

I bought a load of salami & French cheese from a farmers market here. I want to take to my inlaws at xmas as we eat & drink like Vikings during that week. Can I freeze them.

It was great to see cassoulet being cooked in enourmous 6 feet frying pans in my home town.

ps Jock=scouse now i am confused !!


(edited for unfortunate typo)

[coolJ]

Hey Mike,
you can definetly freeze the salami, but as for the cheese I'm not sure, I have frozen shredded monteray jack and cheddar before and had no relative problems with the thawing out.

[Jock]

Yeah Mike, me mam was a scouse. And, as everybody knows, Liverpool is the capital of Ireland so she was Irish too. Talk about confused!!!

Jock

[DaveB]

Originally posted by coolJ
you can definetly freeze the salami, but as for the cheese I'm not sure

I've had at least one bad experience freezing cheese. A number of years ago a firend brought an entire wheel of Cherry Gourmandise (around 5 lb./ 2.25 kg) to a party at our place. There was so much left over that we decided to try freezing wedges for future use. When we thawed the first piece, we discovered that it had developed a crumbly, granular texture, rather like very soft feta.

We never tried the experiment again.

[Suzanne]

Some cheeses freeze better than others. Soft and semi-soft (as DaveB described) don't do well at all. Hard cheeses -- parmigiano, aged cheddar -- freeze somewhat better, but still get crumbly and are best grated when thawed. The most success I've ever had with freezing cheese has been mass-produced mozzarella.