Maximum Collagen Extraction

[scott123]

The heads up on powdered gelatin is extremely helpful - thanks.

not to sound like a smart alleck but how close to straight gelatin are you looking for?

Chicken stock is the center of my universe. I spend hours making it and by the time it's reduced I have a relatively small amount. Because I start with roasted bones I always have more then enough flavor. If I can get more collagen, I won't have to reduce it as much and then I'll get more stock. The more stock I can get out of one batch means the less frequently I'll have to make it.

[chef from va]

"I spend hours making it and by the time it's reduced I have a relatively small amount."

again not to be smart or anything but i thought that a stock reduced to that point was called a glace. in that case you are talking about a different beast than just chicken stock.

[scott123]

Chef from va, when I say a "relatively small amount", I'm not referring to a glace, it's just a stock reduced to a point where it will gel when cold. I mean "relatively" in terms of a. in relation to the amount of time I put into it and b. in relation to my chicken stock needs.

My needs are such that I have to make stock about every two days. If I can up the amount of extracted collagen, I can decrease that to every three days. Which would be wonderful.

[dano1]

scott,
might be best to find a butcher or meat purveyor and buy 40lb cases of chix bones at a time and a 40qt stock pot.
IMO, stock doesn't need much attention-the less its messed with the better. Its set and forget. I don't want to sound like a d..khead but maybe your putting too much thought into this?
40lb chix bones yields me 5-6gal stock that will gel when cooled(not that is my main point).
You can always try a pressure cooker for it ;_.
hth, danny

[Suzanne]

Danny, you're brilliant!! PRESSURE COOKER!!!!! Of course! I didn't think of it because I hardly ever use mine -- but I have used it for stock, and it does indeed work very well, and very fast. The only drawback is that it doesn't make more than a few quarts at a time.

Scott, what kind of quantities do you use? And what storage space do you have? Really, the more hard numbers we have from you, the more we can focus.

[scott123]

You can always try a pressure cooker for it

How long do you pressure cook it for?

Stock doesn't need much attention

Simmering doesn't need any attention, but by the time you add up the washing of the chicken, the roasting (yes, I'm one of the ones who prefers browning first), deglazing the pan, deboning the meat, straining, simmering again, straining, reducing, skimming, and cooling, it can get pretty labor intensive.

Buying chicken bones sounds like a good idea. Although my local butcher is not that clean, hopefully I can find a butcher who is.

Suzanne, I use about a quart of stock per day. My storage is less of a limitation than my capacity for chicken meat. 2 chickens (about 9 lbs.) gives me about a half gallon of stock. If I roast more chickens I end up with too much meat to work with. Which is why chicken bones sounds like a good idea.

[Suzanne]

Every restaurant I ever worked in used mostly just bones. That might be your best way to go.

Here's a suggestion: since you can't use a whole 40-pound case of bones at once, maybe the butcher you find can keep them for you and you can get them in batches. I hate to say the "f word" but maybe the butcher can freeze the batches, so they'll keep until you're ready for them.

Another suggestion: if not bones, why not use only wings? They should be a lot cheaper than whole chickens (that's what you've been using??? ), readily available, and with all those joints they've got lots of collagen. I use wings when I make turkey stock, and I get a really good strong broth.

(I haven't addressed your pressure cooker question because I don't know; as I said, I don't use mine very much. But surely someone else knows. Anyone??? )

[thebighat]

There's a recipe in the Balthazar cookbook for a jus made strictly with chicken wings that sounds succulent. I have yet to decide whether or not to have chicken wings as one of my manly snacks for the Super Bowl tomorrow. We live a couple of towns away from Gillette Stadium and this is real bluecollar Patriots fan country. I'm not a rabid fan, but after following the Red Sox for a long time, one yearns for championships and real men, not wimps (25 players, 25 cabs) and excuses.

I just got the Time-Life The Good Cook book on Pates, Terrines and Galantines and it shows putting powdered gelatin into a fish stock. Most of the other stocks they have in there are made with either pig's feets or veal knuckles.

[Suzanne]

Oh, yeah: I've been adding a half a pig's foot to my stocks lately (I just make a few quarts at a time at home). That adds a lot of natural gelatin. But some folks can't do that, if they keep kosher or halal. If Scott doesn't have those restrictions, that would work for him, since the richer flavor of the brown chix stock would cover any residual pig-foot flavor.

[scott123]

Thanks everyone for all the great advice.

I will definitely seek out chicken bones. I've been paying close attention to wing prices (turkey and chicken) and I can't seem to get any good deals. Also, my favorite brands of chicken don't seem to sell the wings by themselves. I have made stock from wings before and yes, they appear to produce more collagen than any other part of the bird.

I don't keep kosher, but I'm pretty sure I could still detect the taste of pigs feet in my brown chix stock. Pigs feet chix stock are probably delicious, it's just I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to my chicken stock. When I do a pork stock, which I do very infrequently, I'll remember your note about the feet, thanks.

[Suzanne]

Just wanted to add an update, although re: veal stock, not chicken.

Last night I roasted a piece of veal breast, three ribs' worth. As you know, there is not a lot of meat on that cut, but there is a LOT of bone, cartilage, fat, and integument. After dinner, I took all that stuff we'd trimmed off and tossed it in the slow-cooker with the leftover jus, some veg stock, and water, and left it on LOW. It cooked all night at a very low simmer. By the time I looked at it this morning (about 9am), the collagen was mostly melted, and by now (2 1/2 hours later) it is almost all gone. I'm going to have some nice jelly.

[Mikeb]

When I make stock at home it's usually from leftover half-eaten chickens (most of the breast and thigh meat is gone, but still a little meat elsewhere on the carcass). I add mirepoix, the chicken, a little salt (to cold water), and bring it to a boil. As soon as it starts boiling I reduce the temp to a simmer (if you boil it too long it'll get cloudy). I let it simmer for 3-5 hours. Afterwards I strain everything out of the stock, and reduce it to around 1/2 of it's volume. It's like pure jelly when you refrigerate it

[Leethequeen]

For added collagen why not add chicken feet?

[scott123]

Originally Posted by Leethequeen

For added collagen why not add chicken feet?

That's a good point. At the time of my last posting to this thread, I was under the misconception that, due to the amount of skin involved, wings were the greatest source of collagen. I have since learned that feet are an even greater source.

[Nick.Shu]

err, given that your needs are quite low, and obviously space may be a premium, wouldnt it make sense to make a glace de volaile, and use it to flavour, rather than go for a extra gelatinous bulk stock?

not being a smart *** just curious.