Glace de veau Viande, Espagnole, Demi-Glace

[deltadoc]

Ah, I said it before, if Escoffier stated that "demi-glace is the perfection of Espagnole sauce", then is the perfection of any mother sauce still a mother sauce or is it a derivative sauce?

This is like arguing the Bible. IT's only been translated some 13 times from the original. How likely is it that due to colloquiallisms, and the inherent difficulties in capturing something said in Aramaic into ancient Greek and so forth able to accurately record what was being said in its original context and meaning?

Therefore, I say, A rose by any other name is still a rose, and do I love demi-glace!

doc

[cheflayne]

It doesn't mention sherry under Espagnole, the quote was from what it said about Demi-Glace.

[hans.schallenbe]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

Ah, I said it before, if Escoffier stated that "demi-glace is the perfection of Espagnole sauce", then is the perfection of any mother sauce still a mother sauce or is it a derivative sauce?

This is like arguing the Bible. IT's only been translated some 13 times from the original. How likely is it that due to colloquiallisms, and the inherent difficulties in capturing something said in Aramaic into ancient Greek and so forth able to accurately record what was being said in its original context and meaning?

Therefore, I say, A rose by any other name is still a rose, and do I love demi-glace!

doc

doc,

you are rigth, the espagnole is a mother sauce, in translation into german, they state brown base sauce, and the demi glace can be translated as strong brown sauce, whereas the demi - glace traditionally is basically a deviation from the espagnol. today, we use brown veal stock, which is an espagnole without a roux.

hans

[hans.schallenbe]

Originally Posted by cheflayne

It doesn't mention sherry under Espagnole, the quote was from what it said about Demi-Glace.

in my book under demi - glace it says, Madeira, well doc was rigth, the things get translated, information changes. what year is your translation.

hans

[cheflayne]

I actually have two translations. The one I referenced from was from 1969. The other one is from 1982 and it mentions finishing with sherry, port, or Madeira.

[deltadoc]

Yeah, my translation of Escoffier's cookbook was produced in the '60's. I remember buying it in the early '70's, along with Craig Claiborne's Best of NY Times each for $1.

It only states Sherry for the demi-glace recipe. Reduce and add 10% sherry after taking off the fire, or something to that effect. I don't have it in front of me now.

doc

[deltadoc]

Went home for lunch and took a look at my Escoffier book. 1969. Looked up the "half-glaze" recipe. Now wasn't this Escoffier a Frenchman writing in French back in the 1800's? What's the chance that his French "half-glaze" recipe specified 1 Qt measurements!

doc

[hans.schallenbe]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

Went home for lunch and took a look at my Escoffier book. 1969. Looked up the "half-glaze" recipe. Now wasn't this Escoffier a Frenchman writing in French back in the 1800's? What's the chance that his French "half-glaze" recipe specified 1 Qt measurements!

doc

escoffier, was born 1847 and died 1935, to the best knowlege i have, he was swiss.

doc, the demi glace we are doing today is actuall logical, as we dont use sauce espagnole anymore since more than 40 years.

we roast the veal bones nice brown, we add mirepoix briefly roast, add tomato paste briefly roast, dust with flour, deglace with wine and reduce, add cold veal stock bring to simmer and cook for 4 hours.

so logically reading the procedure, no need to make an espagnol any more as the new version we do for quite some years combines the espagnole and the demi glace mentioned in the escoffier.

hans

[deltadoc]

I got curious and did a little research. Escoffier was born in 1846 in Villeneuve Loubet near Nice. He worked in France until 1884 when he moved to Monaco. Between 1884 and 1890 he split his time between Monaco and Switzerland. In 1890 he went to the Savoy in London. He left in 1898 to go to the Hotel Ritz in Paris. In 1899 he went back to London to the Carlton Hotel and was there until 1919. In 1903 he wrote Le Guide Culinaire. He died on Feb. 12, 1935 just days after his wife died.

Hope this wasn't too far off topic or anything.

doc

[hans.schallenbe]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

I got curious and did a little research. Escoffier was born in 1846 in Villeneuve Loubet near Nice. He worked in France until 1884 when he moved to Monaco. Between 1884 and 1890 he split his time between Monaco and Switzerland. In 1890 he went to the Savoy in London. He left in 1898 to go to the Hotel Ritz in Paris. In 1899 he went back to London to the Carlton Hotel and was there until 1919. In 1903 he wrote Le Guide Culinaire. He died on Feb. 12, 1935 just days after his wife died.

Hope this wasn't too far off topic or anything.

doc

doc,
that is great. i will poste some of it on the history section of this web site. however, based on my info he was born 1847. what is your reference . mine is 'vom lucullus zu escoffier' by harry schraemli.

hans

[deltadoc]

I think I got it from the Tallyrand website from their Great Chef Bio section.

Type in "Tallyrand Culinary" on google to find the web site.


doc

[hans.schallenbe]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

I think I got it from the Tallyrand website from their Great Chef Bio section.

Type in "Tallyrand Culinary" on google to find the web site.


doc

doc,

i saw it, also carem, but still for us he is an adopted swiss, the time he spent and thougth this alpin country, the way he made it with ritz. he left so much enthouiasm with us, that in the 1960, internationally most great chefs in hotels were from this alpine nation.

with this said we have to move on, i just answered a post today, about roasting a chicked, what i read, of all the ideas how to roast a chicken, and to check the doness. we truly should all start to talk about the cooking methods and techniques.

hans