[Pete]

TVFN began its life portraying itself as the place to tune to learn how to cook. This image remained intact for nearly 10 years with minimal fluff shows.

That was when FNTV first started out, in only the major cities. They were pretty small time back then. Now they are pretty standard on all cable networks, and that has changed them. Don't get me wrong. I agree, most of the stuff is crap. I used to love half of their programing line up, now I only watch 3-4 shows, not counting some of their specials. But the point remains, they air what the majority of people want them to air. Believe me, if people wanted the "old format" back and stopped tuning in, then FNTV would change their programing back, but obviously this crap is what most people want. So you all can bemoan the demise of FNTV but they are doing what they set out to do, make money. If you can't stand it that much, then vote with your remote. Turn off FNTV. If enough people feel like the people here and vote with their remote then things will change, but, unfortunately, I believe that the people here are in the minority. And please don't use FNTV as a scapegoat for the decline in the culinary education of our society. They are a symptom, not the cause.

[MarkV]

Why is Giada known as "little big head?"

Mark

[KeeperOfTheGood]

Originally Posted by Pete

And please don't use FNTV as a scapegoat for the decline in the culinary education of our society. They are a symptom, not the cause.

Now, that sounds like it would be an interesting topic to discuss all on its own. I agree, food is no longer what it was. Family traditions and lifestyle and economy and refridgeration all have changed food so much in a very short time.

By ways of example. My mom and dad were bourn in 1941. My mom used a glass scrub board to wash laundry by hand untill her teens when her parents were able to afford a washing machine. She also bought things like chickens, from the market butcher. If she wanted that chicked dressed she had to pay an extra dollar, and often didn't have that much money, which ment it was up to her to kill and clean them herself. My fathers first job was as an ice cutter. Yes, that is exactly what he did, with a saw, on the lake, in winter. The ice that was cut was sold for iceboxes. He, and many people of his generation, didn't have an electric fridge.

I have a very hard time imagineing the life as kids they lived, especially concidering this is the life they lived post war here in Canada. The idea that if I wanted a carrot in winter I would have to go outside to a cold house to dig some carrots out of a sand box, and that by late winter they were pretty nasty..... *shakes head* Is it any wonder a whole generation pounced on things like TV dinners?

[Kerryclan]

TVFN is obviously going for ratings, not quality.

MarkV: Giada is called Little Big Head (LBL) because her head is too big for her tiny body. She is a good cook, though, and is gorgeous, but her head is just too **** big!

[chiffonade]

So in other words, whenever a product declines, it's best to just stop using it instead of possibly giving feedback which might return it to its orginal luster? I've never found that to be true of anything worth saving.

If the time comes when a new culinary network is created that more resembles what TVFN was when it started out, with quality, instructional programming - I'll be jumping ship right along with everyone else who thinks TVFN has gone to s**t. For the time being, though, it might be worthwhile to try and fix what has obviously become broken.

[Pete]

Chiff, you missed my point entirely. I have never said, if its broken do not fix it. I am saying that we, as chefs and foodies, may see it as being broken, but maybe the teaming masses don't see it that way. Maybe to them it is just right. For them, they may prefer the entertainment value, the pretty faces, the simple, convenience food laden recipes. These people seem to prefer the crappy fluff that FNTV puts out. I never said not to make your voice heard. Im just saying that your voice may be that of the minority, and don't expect them to change for that minority. But let's face it, the teaming masses (I never claimed they were right or even very bright) don't want instructional TV unless it entertains, and they want it delivered by witty, beautiful people. Julia, Jeff Smith, Graham Kerr, and all the others of early, PBS cooking shows would have never made it today. They are not beautiful enough, trendy enough, or witty enough. ****, look at what has happened to TLC (loaded with Makeover Story, Dating Story, Wedding Story, etc.) or The Discovery Channel (Monster Garage, Monster House, American Chopper, etc.). These sure aren't the stations they once were, but as disgusted by the majority of their programming as I am, I still find something worthwhile on those channels.

[chiffonade]

Im just saying that your voice may be that of the minority, and don't expect them to change for that minority.

That's just it...for the first 10 years of TVFN, my voice echoed those in the 100 percentile! This "expansion" in an attempt to broaden the audience to include people who don't cook is a mistake. TVFN Management took a good thing for people who cook and are trying to make it a "generic" thing to include those who don't care about cooking.

Programming doesn't have to be 100% instructional - the "challenges" like Pizza and Wedding Cake are definitely of interest to those who cook. It's the low-quality junk like Semi-Homemade that has serious viewers convinced that TVFN has lost its marbles.

I don't watch ESPN because I am not interested in sports - and those who cook are turning away from TVFN because it has less and less to do with cooking. Luckily, we TIVO everything and watch at our convenience, so a good part of my disgust with TVFN is expressed in the form of head shaking while looking at my DirecTV guide. There is less and less worth watching on TVFN and they should not have bailed on their original, dedicated audience.

[Kerryclan]

...my only fear in the TVFN evolution is that good, but less pretty and perky cooks, will not be on anymore. If you saw Rachael Ray on earlier shows, she was much more normal and there was only an occassional giggle. Now, she's so put on and excruciatingly perky that I can't stand to watch her even though I think she is a good cook.

SandySlop has no place on any cooking channel. Especially for novice cooks. She is a hazard to learning about food and cooking.

I've been watching the Create channel more these days. They have Jacques, Ming, Lidia, and some interesting veggie/wholistic chefs on and it's more about food and cooking and less about being cute.

I find myself watching TVFN more for laughs than instruction or new recipes. I hope you're wrong about the masses preferring this fluff, but we'll see.

[MarkV]

Speaking of the "good ole days" of the Food Network, when there was better quality programming, do you guys remember "Michael's Place" with chef Michael Lomonaco? It was on in the mid 90's.

I loved that show. I was new to cooking then and I learned a lot from him. I still have quit a few of his recipes from back then that I continue to make to this day.

I always hoped he would have another show but I'm afraid we're far more likely to get stuck with some ditzy, semi-professional, who uses bouillon cubes in place of stock, on some reality TV/game show/food show appealing to the masses of people who only want to spend 30 minutes in a kitchen.

Mark

[Kerryclan]

Yes, MarkV, I remember Lomonaco. He is great. Not only a terrific chef, but a real nice guy. I know someone who worked as his pastry chef at Windows on the World and they had a great experience working with him. He sometimes guests on other shows now. I always look forward to seeing him cook.

I don't think FN will give him a show again unless he has some pretty, useless, young gal sitting in a chair asking him dumb questions and announcing breaks (How to Boil Water).

[chiffonade]

Originally Posted by Kerryclan

...my only fear in the TVFN evolution is that good, but less pretty and perky cooks, will not be on anymore. If you saw Rachael Ray on earlier shows, she was much more normal and there was only an occassional giggle. Now, she's so put on and excruciatingly perky that I can't stand to watch her even though I think she is a good cook.

ITA about RR. She's a good cook - that's true. But unfortunately, TVFN personalities tend to morph into a 24/7 version of what TVFN molds them to be. All anyone remembers Emeril for is "pork fat rules" and "bam." He's so much more than that.

SandySlop has no place on any cooking channel. Especially for novice cooks. She is a hazard to learning about food and cooking.

Sweet Jesus, can I get an AMEN?

I've been watching the Create channel more these days. They have Jacques, Ming, Lidia, and some interesting veggie/wholistic chefs on and it's more about food and cooking and less about being cute.

OK, spill the beans! Where does one find the Create channel? Is it offered by a specific broadcast company (like Comcast or DirecTV) or is it available to all??

I find myself watching TVFN more for laughs than instruction or new recipes. I hope you're wrong about the masses preferring this fluff, but we'll see.

Semi-Ho is definitely for laughs and nothing else. As for Big Head and Ina and only enough other decent cooks to be counted on one hand, I still glean the occasional gem from them making their shows worth my time. As for TVFN trying to appeal to the masses by offering mindless fluff, it was probably the decision of a "business" person and not the suggestion of a "culinary" person. Culinary people should always be running TVFN. Bean counters can remain in their support role but TVFN should always be about quality culinary programming.

[chiffonade]

Originally Posted by Kerryclan

I don't think FN will give him a show again unless he has some pretty, useless, young gal sitting in a chair asking him dumb questions and announcing breaks (How to Boil Water).

You mean like Jacqui Malouf? She's the most useless appendage since Claudine Pepin.

[MarkV]

Jacqui Malouf is necessary because Bobby Flay can't produce an intelligent sentence. He has the verbal skills of an above average Down's Syndrome child. He is often at a loss for words and can't articulate the nuances of various culinary procedures. And he's not going to win any personality contests with his narcissism. I saw him way back when on Ming Sai's show and he acted condescending and disrespectful.

He is a good chef but he NEEDS a verbal crutch.

But your point is well taken Chiff and shows like "How to boil water" are a perfect example. The dorky blonde on that show does nothing but distract from the show. The only reason I watch it is because I think Tyler Florence is so good.

[chiffonade]

I find shows with unnecessary distractions like you describe to be downright uncomfortable to watch because they're so stupid. I tried watching Cooking with Claudine ONCE before I re-named it Cooking In Front Of Claudine. I switched the channel when Claudine asked Jacques "What is that, basil?" No it's spinach you mental midget.

Neither DH (a Corporate Chef) nor I can stomach Bobby Flay. Believe it or not, I formed an opinion of him when I saw him jump in the cutting board at the Iron Chef battle V. Morimoto. I'm sorry. No matter how good you are with a knife, don't put your shod feet where food will be.

[Kerryclan]

I love Jacques and I didn't mind Claudine. At least she has wine knowledge and explained the pairing of wine with whatever Daddy made. Same for Lidia's son Joe. Actually Lidia gives poor Joe all the dirty work when he appears occassionally on her show. I remember when she had him clean a load of squid and the look he gave her when she told him to.

In these two cases at least there's a warm, real, family thing going on. On HTBW, nothing of the kind! Tyler always seems annoyed, condescending, or something and Jack is reduced to tasting and announcing breaks. They're not related, don't even seem like friends. Just, no reason to have them together.

Create is channel 133 on my direct. It's not all food, though. There's some pretty good home improvement, sewing, painting, shows too.