Chicken Stock

[skilletlicker]

I've been doing this:
1. Boil a chicken for half an hour.
2. Save the meat.
3. Boil everything else for 2 or 3 ball games.
4. Cool the liquid and throw away everything else.
This left me with light yellow stuff the texture of soft jello that tasted like chicken.

Since I'm trying to learn some cooking skills, I added the spices and vegetables from the New York Times Cookbook recipe. After removing the meat I kept the temperature between 195 and 205 degrees for about 6 hours, then strained and reduced to about 60 percent of volume. The result was brown, like canned beef broth, not much thicker than water and didn't taste like chicken.

1. Does reducing the temperature to simmer significantly slow the extraction of the good stuff (collagen, marrow, ?) from the carcass? If so, why not boil?
2. What color should good chicken stock be?
3. I've seen "brown chicken stock" as an ingredient in recipes. Is this a different thing than "regular" chicken stock?

Thanks again for your experience and advise.

Correction: This did finally gel in the fridge.

[tripps11]

I think if you boil it it breaks it up too fast. sticken stock should be yellow to brownish yellow, and brown chicken stock has soy sauce or some other dark liquid (maybe you could use some worshistire, give it a little tang) to make it darker.

[Someday]

My understanding...the reason you simmer is more for clarity than flavor. If you have the stock going at a rolling boil, the fat and bits of skin and proteing will be more emulsified into the stock, making a mch more cloudy finished product. AFAIK, it shouldn't really have much effect on flavor, if any. Many many chefs boil the heck out of their stock, and still get great tasting bases for sauces and soups. Like, Tomas Keller wouldn't boil his, I'm sure, but the dude running the local bistro who makes made from scratch food and good soups, etc, probably would boil his.

Also, from what I think I know, chicken stock shouldn't have a very strong flavor. It should have plenty of BODY, i.e. the jello thickness when cold, but flavor should be minimal, ideally. The purpose of a stock like this is to add mouth feel and richness to an item, not neccessarily flavor, which would come from other sources (i.e. split peas, in pea soup, not chicken tasting split pea soup).

Now, you're making a kind of hybrid between a broth and a stock. A broth generally is made from more meat than bones, and has the flavor if the item. Like, if you were making chicken tortilla or chicken noodle soup, then you would use a broth. Like I said, you're kind of making a hybrid, which is fine, BTW, I do it all the time too. Makes great soup.

As far as the brown liquid, I dunno. Maybe someone else could help with that. Only thing I can think of--were you using an already cooked chicken or a raw one?

~someday

[Mezzaluna]

If you browned the bones and mirepoix in the oven, wouldn't your stock be darker?

[Suzanne]

Not quite, tripps11. Brown chicken stock is made from chicken that has been browned first (either seared in the pot or roasted in the oven). It has a stronger flavor for that reason, as well as a darker color, and so is not used as universally as plain old regular chicken stock.

What I think happened when you cooked your stock that long was that the sugars in the vegetables caramelized, and as you cooked it and reduced it, it became concentrated and the caramelization became more apparent in the appearance and the vegetable in the flavor. That's just an awfully long time to cook a chicken stock. At the opposite end of the spectrum is a type of Chinese chicken stock, in which the chicken is covered with water, brought to a boil, and then let to sit off the heat until cool. That stock is, of course, very mild, but has its uses in certain dishes.

We had quite a discussion some time ago on Maximum Collagen Extraction, which you might find helpful.

[skilletlicker]

were you using an already cooked chicken or a raw one?

Started with a whole raw chicken separated into leg/thighs, wings, breast and back. Included the neck and other stuff from inside. Thought about browning first but decided not to, thereby limiting the number of altered variables in the experiment.

Also, from what I think I know, chicken stock shouldn't have a very strong flavor. It should have plenty of BODY, i.e. the jello thickness when cold, but flavor should be minimal, ideally. The purpose of a stock like this is to add mouth feel and richness to an item, not neccessarily flavor, which would come from other sources (i.e. split peas, in pea soup, not chicken tasting split pea soup).

"Someday", you got me to think, for the first time, Do I really want my chicken stock to taste like chicken? - Everybody knows split pea soup should taste like smoked ham hock. You're right though, the answer is sometimes, but mostly for chicken soup or cream of chicken.

Now, you're making a kind of hybrid between a broth and a stock. A broth generally is made from more meat than bones, and has the flavor if the item.

I've been doing it my old way out of ignorance. If I do it like this in the future it will be for chicken soup or because I'm lazy. Thanks for the lesson.
Suzanne got to the point like a laser:

What I think happened when you cooked your stock that long was that the sugars in the vegetables caramelized, and as you cooked it and reduced it, it became concentrated and the caramelization became more apparent in the appearance and the vegetable in the flavor.

That's what it tasted like - the juice from a pan of roasted vegetables, diluted- not a bad flavor, but definitely not what I expected. The pot contributed to this as well because with the extra vegetables it wouldn't fit in the good heavy bottomed dutch oven I usually use. I had to substitute a cheap thin stock pot. Will invest in a new pot.
Thanks for the link to Maximum Collagen Extraction. Saturated water? - wouldn't have guessed in a thousand years! OK, so when you reboil the bones (can barely type remoullage, let alone say it) do you start with as much water and the same kind and amount of vegetables, herbs and spices as you used the first time?

[Mezzaluna]

Included the neck and other stuff from inside.

I hope you don't mean the liver too; that would make the broth cloudy and off-flavored. Gizzards, heart and neck are fine, however.

[Someday]

Many people, including myself, don't flavor their stock with vegetables and spices. It can be desirable to have a very neutral stock...for example, if you put garlic in your stock and you can taste the garlic, but what if you don't want your final product to taste like garlic?

Any type of sauce or soup can have spices and flavors added later. Know what I mean? I don't even add salt.

I throw a bunch of bones in a big pot, cover with cold water, and simmer for about 4-5 hours, skimming a lot at first but then less towards the end. Strain, reduce, cool, store in freezer in individual serving sizes. Rule of thumb is about

~Somday

[skilletlicker]

I hope you don't mean the liver too; that would make the broth cloudy and off-flavored. Gizzards, heart and neck are fine, however.

You mean that dark redish-brown homogeniously squishy thumb size thing that nobody describes well enough for a novice to identify?
Someday, Someday, Someday...Every time I begin to understand, you say something like;

what if you don't want your final product to taste like garlic?

Why wouldn't you? What isn't improved with a little garlic?

[Someday]

Garlic was just an example. My only point was sometimes you shouldn't add other flavorings so that the final dish has that taste...thats all. I could have easily said rosemary or whatever.

~Someday

[skilletlicker]

Someday,
I really do get it and completely agree. Thanks for all the input.

[redace1960]

not at all. you ask good questions!