Ice Carving...........

[cakerookie]

I hope I am putting this in the right place. But I found some real interesting information on the web about ice carving and was wondering if the chefs that do this sort thing are taught in culinary school or is it just something kind of like sugar work that chefs pick up on. Some of the pieces are huge and take cranes to lift in place.

[chrose]

Originally Posted by cakerookie

or is it just something kind of like sugar work that chefs pick up on.

There are books on the subject and I'm sure there are some kind of classes somewhere, but I think by and large it's picked up through working with someone who does it and teaching themselves. It's really basic sculpture with a different medium so I imagine sculpting classes at a local college would help. The knives and saws if you get the good ones are mind bogglingly expensive. Look for Japanese books on the subject, they are phenomenal.

[cakerookie]

Thanks CH. Haven't heard from you in a while. How ya doin?

[cape chef]

We did not have ice carving classes in school, although you could sign up for specific weekend classes (no credits). I learned ice carving through hotels when they were a big deal for almost any occasion. Like Chrose said, the japanese are truly amazing in this art.

[cakerookie]

Thanks capechef. HAAAAAAAAAAAAA just another avenue to explore in the fine arts of the culinary world. Neat thing about food you can play with it then eat it if you don't burn it first>>>>>>>>>>

[kuan]

The basic designs are quite easy once you learn them. There's sort of a template and there's not much fine detail going in. A good teacher can break it down for you. Things like pineapple vase for instance is just two cuts down each side, score the pineapple pattern, make the crown and carve a hole big enough on the top for the flowers.

A swan is also pretty simple. Remember thouse choux paste swans that looked so cool when you were a rookie but then when you learned how to make it they were so simple? Just like that.

Wear steel toes and eye protection. You can get by with an electric chainsaw and basic woodworking chisels. When you get better you might want to invest in better tools.

Most of the people who I met in the industry who were proficient at ice carving started out on the job in the hotel or country club or what ever place that had a market for ice. Some places have 3or4 people who can do ice so if you want to get on that list you gotta wait till somebody dies before you get a shot. There are some places where Michaelangelo is firmly entrenched in place with no signs of leaving so If you really want to learn it make sure you bring this up in your next interview.... and watch this person like a hawk and pick their brain as long as you are there !!!

You start out on simple pieces like the flour vase,company logos(3 or 4 letters),swans...etc and when you show the chef you are ready then he will give you more involved pieces. I had the opportunity to do such pieces as a "Tractor trailer truck complete with lumber from 2 pieces, eiffel tower...also 2 peices(7 ft high)

The tough part for beginning carvers when starting out is some pieces you work on you have no idea how the finnished piece is supposed to look so you kinda have to stumble through it. When you're just starting out you're not thinking about what you're going to do with all that left over ice from the carving on the ground melting. So you just kick it out of the way with your running shoes until your feet start to freeze ( lol) Then you start to rethink that a good pair of boots and a squegee would help!

There is something that ice carvers have to master over time and that is the relationship between the temp of the environment the ice is coming from to where it is going. If you have ice sitting in a freezer @ ten below zero for a couple of days and you pull it out to room temp outside you can't work on it right away. It's called tempering. There are different ways to accomplish this. Some just leave the ice out for about an hour or so before starting,hopefully finding a spot in the shade! Another way is to pull out the ice the night before and leave it in the fridge over night.

There is a time period when the ice begins to be acclamated to it's new environment and is now not as brittle and you can work with it at a pretty good pace. This window from when the ice is workable to when it is starting to melt too fast and becomes brittle again is small . Depending on the outdoor temp at the time and how you tempered the ice in the first place. Over night tempered ice will behave nicely sooner but the window for working might be smaller. I have seen countless necks ,limbs ,wings and heads just fall off right in front of you on to the floor . The look of fear and shock on the face of the carver is unfortunate but priceless. This is from loosing track of time and working past that window. This becomes a juggling act you figure out over time .

Ice can sometimes be very tempermental and you have to develop a sixth sense for it . Humidity is one element that can play tricks on you. Another thing is the age of the ice itself. Sometimes ice will sit in warehouse freezers for months and won't behave as well as a younger piece. You can tell just by looking at the ice once you've been doing it for a while. Most pieces of ice have what they call a service side and when you break a wing ....the other side becomes the service side ! lol
This kind of accident can be hazardous to the health and longevity of a carver considering the ice blocks can cost upwards of 50-60 dollars. Some ice can't be finnished until it is brought out and set up in its final resting place on the buffet table. They are just too delicate. I worked in a hotel where we used scaffolding and a forklift . We did a three piece Christmas Tree complete with a sleigh with Santa driving and six reindeer. It took about a week and a half to complete and about 1.5 hrs to set up.we had a freezer that was so big it had neighborhoods inside with streets lol. You could keep about a dozen or so pieces in their at a time .
You are right about ice carving equipment being expensive . Japanese equipment can cost thousands. But you can get what they call an American set from outfits like JB Prince for under $200. All you really need is a "V" chisel,about 2 or 3 flat chisels in different wiidths,a small hand saw,a chipper and a good set of ice tongs. And later you can pick up your self a chain saw. The trickiest time is either when you're moving the ice to the freezer after finishing carving or when you set it up for display and a decent set of tongs is a good investment.
You mention the Japanese as holding the title as the best carvers and that is probably true but there are other groups of people moving quickly up the ladder....the Phillapinos being one...I've seen them on cruise ships who can whip through an advanced piece in less than 25 min using the chain saw alone....and still with intricate detail...
As far as teaching people to do this ....I think the best method here is to learn by doing if you are fortunate enough to have that luxury. Be set up well before you bring out your ice.. Have a plan with others lined up to help you move the ice when needed. I think also that quality lighting can help with the display and should be thought out ahead of time.

It is great fun to learn how to do this. It was the first time that I truly got a sense of creating and being an artist. It sure doesn't hurt your ego having 5 or six people standing around watching you ...oohing and ahhhing....You have to be patient ! I was the 5th guy on a four man team for a while before I finally got going. If you want to learn you must step forward and let those in charge know !

I forgot to mention that a chef told me once that if the customer can't tell what it is that you've carved they will most likely walk by the piece with out giving it as much thought a little quicker and in effect you haven't done your job as well as you could and a lot of effort wasted.

[panini]

I learned back, when all ice had a core. Back then, the idea was to design ,without messing with the air in that core.
I have been called upon to carve a few times in the past 2 years and have found the clear blocks to be a whole new medium. I was actually able to play with added materials like pictures,art, laminated, and welded between two pieces. We have a well know carver here in Dallas, Robert Bifulco. He owns Vanishing Ice Sculptures. A great school for Ice. A lot of area chefs carve and have studied with Robert.
I think the most important thing that I learned was exageration in detail.
Many yrs. ago I work along side some Japanese carvers. Spectacular detail. I would come close on the detail and couldn'tfigure out why their ice looked so much better on display. One of the old timers told me to get very detailed but exagerate it so it remains longer on the melt.
Anyway, there is a national association of ice arvers (NICA) if someones interested.
pan