Veal Stock and demi-glace

[skilletlicker]

In preparation for making demi-glace I'll be making my first batch of veal stock shortly. The 1990 edition of the New York Times Cookbook has a recipe that calls for 1 large (3-4 pound) veal knuckle and 1 1/2 lbs veal, cut into pieces. The best, and as far as I know, the only decent retail butcher in town is Charlie's Meat Market. When I go there tomorrow I'm afraid someone will say something like, last I checked veals don't got fingers. What part of the carcass exactly do you want? What is a knuckle exactly? (I usually don't have problems coming up with my own smart alec answers.) As for the 1 1/2 lbs. of veal - what part of the animal do I want for that?

Chef Kaiser's Demi-glace recipe calls for calves feet 0.100 kg (cut into walnut size). Would I sound like an idiot if I asked for about a quarter lb of calf foot or would it be less dumb to ask for a whole foot cut into walnut size pieces? How much does a foot weigh, give or take?

Finally, I know someone will ask what I'm going to do with demi-glace. I could say I'll use it to make rice brown, but what other uses does it have for the home cook?

I put this in a new thread so as not to drag down the intellectual level of the professional conversation on this topic in another thread. Proofreading this it sounds, even to me, like one long wisecrack but that's not how I intend it. The answers to any or all of the above will greatly appreciated.

[ghost]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

In preparation for making demi-glace I'll be making my first batch of veal stock shortly. The 1990 edition of the New York Times Cookbook has a recipe that calls for 1 large (3-4 pound) veal knuckle and 1 1/2 lbs veal, cut into pieces. The best, and as far as I know, the only decent retail butcher in town is Charlie's Meat Market. When I go there tomorrow I'm afraid someone will say something like, last I checked veals don't got fingers. What part of the carcass exactly do you want? What is a knuckle exactly? (I usually don't have problems coming up with my own smart alec answers.) As for the 1 1/2 lbs. of veal - what part of the animal do I want for that?

Chef Kaiser's Demi-glace recipe calls for calves feet 0.100 kg (cut into walnut size). Would I sound like an idiot if I asked for about a quarter lb of calf foot or would it be less dumb to ask for a whole foot cut into walnut size pieces? How much does a foot weigh, give or take?

Finally, I know someone will ask what I'm going to do with demi-glace. I could say I'll use it to make rice brown, but what other uses does it have for the home cook?

I put this in a new thread so as not to drag down the intellectual level of the professional conversation on this topic in another thread. Proofreading this it sounds, even to me, like one long wisecrack but that's not how I intend it. The answers to any or all of the above will greatly appreciated.

They don't mean knuckle as in finger knuckle. Knuckle in this context is more like a joint. Think like elbows or knees. It's a place where two bones meant in joint. You usually have lots of connective tissue in these areas, so they are rich in gelatin, and thus highly desirable for stock making. :-)

[skilletlicker]

Thanks ghost. I was thinking along those lines, but a 3 to 4 lb joint seems like a pretty big knee or elbow. Even if I think in terms of the upper joint in a butt end ham which I think is a hogs upper leg and hip ball joint it still seems like a lot. Of course, while I've had a pig and a calf, I've never had a pet veal.

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

In preparation for making demi-glace I'll be making my first batch of veal stock shortly. The 1990 edition of the New York Times Cookbook has a recipe that calls for 1 large (3-4 pound) veal knuckle and 1 1/2 lbs veal, cut into pieces. The best, and as far as I know, the only decent retail butcher in town is Charlie's Meat Market. When I go there tomorrow I'm afraid someone will say something like, last I checked veals don't got fingers. What part of the carcass exactly do you want? What is a knuckle exactly? (I usually don't have problems coming up with my own smart alec answers.) As for the 1 1/2 lbs. of veal - what part of the animal do I want for that?

Chef Kaiser's Demi-glace recipe calls for calves feet 0.100 kg (cut into walnut size). Would I sound like an idiot if I asked for about a quarter lb of calf foot or would it be less dumb to ask for a whole foot cut into walnut size pieces? How much does a foot weigh, give or take?

Finally, I know someone will ask what I'm going to do with demi-glace. I could say I'll use it to make rice brown, but what other uses does it have for the home cook?

I put this in a new thread so as not to drag down the intellectual level of the professional conversation on this topic in another thread. Proofreading this it sounds, even to me, like one long wisecrack but that's not how I intend it. The answers to any or all of the above will greatly appreciated.

hi,

I just gave you a base recipe of 1 liter. Therefore you also can multiply the recipe by 10 or 100, what ever volume you want. Why do we cut bones and feet into walnut size - is simply to have more browning surface and i dont need to cook the demi glace for 8 plus hours, as many recipe say. Actual you can save a great deal of electricity.

regards

[skilletlicker]

Originally Posted by Chef Kaiser

I just gave you a base recipe of 1 liter. Therefore you also can multiply the recipe by 10 or 100, what ever volume you want.

Thanks Chef
Since I'm a home cook who lives alone I don't think I'll increase by factors of 10 but it's good to know that one could. I wish I could picture a calf foot. Aren't they hoofs? If the butcher is out of foot will any other part do?

I'm guessing that demi-glace might be used in the home anywhere one might otherwise use a reduced stock. Right track?

I keep a hack saw on the wall to cut ham bones for beans to a similar end. I'll try to get the butcher to cut up the foot (feet).

What part of the animal would produce a 3 to 4 lb veal knuckle?

Thanks again for your patience and generosity.

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

Thanks Chef
Since I'm a home cook who lives alone I don't think I'll increase by factors of 10 but it's good to know that one could. I wish I could picture a calf foot. Aren't they hoofs? If the butcher is out of foot will any other part do?

I'm guessing that demi-glace might be used in the home anywhere one might otherwise use a reduced stock. Right track?

I keep a hack saw on the wall to cut ham bones for beans to a similar end. I'll try to get the butcher to cut up the foot (feet).

What part of the animal would produce a 3 to 4 lb veal knuckle?

Thanks again for your patience and generosity.

hi,

Well you know it depends a little, where in the world you are living and the use of butchery terminologies, call it also fore or hind shank. As with knuckle many refer to pork knuckle only, may be we should all use the american meat buyers guide, so we all speak the same language.

regards

[travisbickle]

I feel a need to intrject a thought here...A basic veal stock certainly is not rocket science, but rather an act of love. My advice here is, for the cook ay home, to make at least five gallons...to reduce down one third before straining and then freeze in quart batches. As far as method goes, that's where the love comes in. "Chef Kaiser", I understand that you must have a very direct recipe that you adhere to. That's fine. However, you must know that there are many variables that can quickly "change the weather" in your kitchen, therefore you must be able to adapt. I recomend having a basic knowledge of what makes a veal stock and henceforth, how to make its primary derivative, beef demi glace.

Skilletlicker...Once you figure out how much stock you want to end up with after eight hours (minimum) of simmering, reduce your product with a second mire poix saute and red wine deglazing to the point where (after skimming frequently), your finished product has naturally thickened to a light syrup consistency...then season it...strain it again through a fine chinoise.

There has been much written on this topic by many of our culinary forefathers, but the concept is simple and pure. No need here to get all high minded...just love what you are making and it will show in your end product. Take your time and have fun with it.

[skilletlicker]

Travisbickle,

Thanks, I think I'm getting it.

One clarification that you or Chef Kaiser could clear up. When he said foot I think I got fixated on that. but when he said

Well you know it depends a little, where in the world you are living and the use of butchery terminologies, call it also fore or hind shank.

is he explaining that what he meant by foot was the veal equivalent of a ham hock? If so that would make more sense to me. Assuming that's correct would I ask the butcher for veal shank?

[travisbickle]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

Travisbickle,

Thanks, I think I'm getting it.

One clarification that you or Chef Kaiser could clear up. When he said foot I think I got fixated on that. but when he said is he explaining that what he meant by foot was the veal equivalent of a ham hock? If so that would make more sense to me. Assuming that's correct would I ask the butcher for veal shank?

Hey Skillet...Yeah, man you want the bones that are cleavered in a way that the marrow will seep out whille they are roasting. "Feet"??? I've never ordred feet from my supplier. When it comes to veal bones, I say: "Cleavered bones". Because when you roast them, you want to pull out the marrow and at the same time, color the outside of the bone. The marrow will want to stick to your roasting pan. So after you remove the bones to your stock pot, you deglaze your roasting pan (I like a nice dry red wine that I would actualy drink...) and scrape up all those great little bits ad add them to your stock.

I don't know where you would want "feet". Unless...you were going to pickle them and sell them to tourists as a delicasy?

[gonefishin]

Hi Skillet,

I'll certainly be awaiting the answers along side with you.


Don't forget to check some of the smaller grocery stores near your house. We have a Polish grocery store within a 35 minute drive that carries a good amount of Veal shanks and cut veal bones as well. I can't remember...but I'm thinking the cut veal bones were around a buck a pound. The shanks a bit more...but still not outrageous.

From time to time I'll make some veal stock and other times some glacé dE viande, which I'll use as an addition for those sauces that I want to add a little something special.

ChefTalk article; Preparing Stocks

ChefTalk article; How to Make a Brown Stock

Glace de veau Viande, Espagnole, Demi-Glace (ChefTalk Forum Thread)

Being quite ignorant on several subjects in life myself...I feel I can give some advice Let your butcher know how ignorant you are. If you try to BS him with knowledge you don't have...he's likely to hand you only what you order. But ask him a question that your not sure of...he may give you a lesson as well

Let us know how it turns out>>>
dan

[skilletlicker]

Travisbickle,
Should the veal stock be the consistency of light syrup while still hot in the pot. I'm thinking of the way my chicken stock thickens when cooled.

What should the consistancy of the demi-glace be?

[travisbickle]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

Travisbickle,
Should the veal stock be the consistency of light syrup while still hot in the pot. I'm thinking of the way my chicken stock thickens when cooled.

What should the consistancy of the demi-glace be?

Skillet...A true demi is a reduction of the veal stock with a secondary mire poix. Glace means glass. It should shimmer like a mirror, which means no cheating!!! I.E.; NO FLOUR! NO STARCH! This is a true reduction and is only seasoned at the very last moment to accompany a dish. You can mass produce a good "demi" and then freeze it and add it to, say, marsala sauces, any pan sauce you may be doing with a beef dish, or whatever your creative "inner chef" says to do! Have fun with it!

[skilletlicker]

Travisbickle,
Veal stock like light syrup hot on the stove and jello in the ice box?

[travisbickle]

Originally Posted by skilletlicker

Travisbickle,
Should the veal stock be the consistency of light syrup while still hot in the pot. I'm thinking of the way my chicken stock thickens when cooled.

What should the consistancy of the demi-glace be?

I just saw that I didn't answer your question...After you strain your veal stock, reduce it by HALF. Strain again (I hope you have been skimming like a good boy...). It should be dark in color, "roasty" in aroma, and beefy in taste. When it cools (Have you strained it via a spicket? Or by ladeling it through a chinoise?), any fat on the top, remove by hand/finger. It should be very gelatin-like in its cold state. That's how you know you did it right. Now...assemble a mirepoix comensurrate to the ammount of veal stock you want to convert and saute until slightly brown. Deglaze your large rondoue with red wine and add your veal stock you labored over with love. Reduce by half and strian agaiin through a fine mesh. Season as you wish for garnishing steaks, or use as a flavor for other sauces.

[Plongeur]

Veal foot is hoof. You want them in your stock because they add collagen, the protein that thickens your stock.