hi fun to be chef or a headache

[Chef Kaiser]

Hi to All,

About cooking methods!

But before my question for sure a true story!

Some years ago here in Asia, there was this British Chef, who landed in town and was talking about all his achievement and especially in the first place he worked in, he put on one wall all the medals he won in culinary competitions in England.

Well soon he was gone and he knocked at my door, so I asked him in the interview, how many cooking methods do we know? He answered 8, I told him, no, there are 14.

Well the question and to start this thread how many do we have really, or we know, as we just practice those we know?

Regards

Chef Kaiser

sorry for my bad english, lucky my consomme does not complains about it, but happy to be clear.

[foodpump]

Like you, Chef Kaiser, I was "brainwashed" with the 14 Grundzuberitungsarten ( methods of cooking) in school. I try to use as many of them in my repetoire, but some, like poele, aren't in use very much. I get strange looks when I tell other cooks that there are two methods of poaching: With movement (ie hollandaise) or without (ie creme caramel), that there are two methods of grilling: on a spit and on the metal grid, and that baking nd roasting are not the same.

One thing I will not tolerate, and have fired several cooks point blank for is not properly sauting. How many times have I seen this? Take the pan, throw the meat into it, put it on the stove, turn on the heat, then maybe as an afterthought, dribble a little oil on it as it sputters in it's own juice....

It's funny, a good European cook with know and practice the proper methods, and relies on technique of cooking methods for good results whereas an Asian one will use his/her excellent command and knowledge of spices and spice/herb combinations, but throw the meat into a pot with the carefully prepared spices on top! (ie Beef rendang, Curry Ayam...)

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by foodpump

Like you, Chef Kaiser, I was "brainwashed" with the 14 Grundzuberitungsarten ( methods of cooking) in school. I try to use as many of them in my repetoire, but some, like poele, aren't in use very much. I get strange looks when I tell other cooks that there are two methods of poaching: With movement (ie hollandaise) or without (ie creme caramel), that there are two methods of grilling: on a spit and on the metal grid, and that baking nd roasting are not the same.

One thing I will not tolerate, and have fired several cooks point blank for is not properly sauting. How many times have I seen this? Take the pan, throw the meat into it, put it on the stove, turn on the heat, then maybe as an afterthought, dribble a little oil on it as it sputters in it's own juice....

It's funny, a good European cook with know and practice the proper methods, and relies on technique of cooking methods for good results whereas an Asian one will use his/her excellent command and knowledge of spices and spice/herb combinations, but throw the meat into a pot with the carefully prepared spices on top! (ie Beef rendang, Curry Ayam...)

hi foodpump,

agree have seen it too. When it comes to the Asian dishes, i do infuse very much the European cooking methods and it works perfectly. Well the fact in Asia is that they do not have too many professional culinary schools. However i must say, it changed a lot over the last 15 years.

regards

[Chef Kaiser]

As a refresher and to think about.

1. Blanching
- In water (starting cold water / starting hot, boiling water)
- In oil

2. Poaching
- In shallow stock
- In floating stock
- In water bath with stirring
- In water bath without stirring

3. Boiling / Simmering
4. Deep fat frying
5. Sauteing
6. Grilling / Broiling
7. Gratinating / au gratin
8. Baking
9. Roasting
10. Butter Roasting
11. Braising
12. Glazing
13. Steaming
14. Stewing


regards

[dledmo]

Where would "smoking" fit in this profile? I mean such as smoked salmon, or BBQ cooking? Just a newbie trying to learn.
regards

[foodpump]

Great flavour enhancer, but is not a cooking technique. Smoking was origianlly used to preserve foods, in combination with some kind of a brining.

[skilletlicker]

Maybe there is a teaching technique being used here that I'm just not sharp enough to grasp, but this just looks to me like, at best, a game of gotcha.

[travisbickle]

Originally Posted by dledmo

Where would "smoking" fit in this profile? I mean such as smoked salmon, or BBQ cooking? Just a newbie trying to learn.
regards

"Smoking" fits in out back after you've busted your a*s all night on the line.

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by travisbickle

"Smoking" fits in out back after you've busted your a*s all night on the line.

hi, back from an Easter break.

Obviously there is a thin line when refering to the hot smoking technique, as you basically cook the fish too. However like when you sun dry fish, so also smoking are classified as preservation methods.

regards

[Grumio]

I think part of the reference was to barbecue - low heat with hardwood smoke, a cooking technique, not a preservative. Whether that means there should be 15 rather than 14 has more to do with language than cooking, imho.

cheers

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by Grumio

I think part of the reference was to barbecue - low heat with hardwood smoke, a cooking technique, not a preservative. Whether that means there should be 15 rather than 14 has more to do with language than cooking, imho.

cheers

hi,

Well if you refer to BBQ, i rather would say that is grilling or spit roasting method. Smoking is done in a enclosed chamber, wherein the heat of the smoke is essential for cold or hot smoking and not the direct heat source producing the smoke. Did you ever hear that like a whole pork loin is only smoked and it iwould be cooked. I believe impossible as first you have to preserve it in a brine and then you can smoke it. Smoking as Foodpump wrote is mainly a flavor enhancer today but not a cooking method. As to mentioned, there are more traditional smoked dishes, which first are cured and thereafter are smoked.

You can try it out, just put some wood chips or saw dust into a steamer, place the perforated insert of the steamer at least 15 centimeter / 6 inches above. Place your fish on top of the insert, cover it airtied and smoke your fish for just a few minutes. Not too long. The fish will still be raw inside and you finish it off in the oven, or just pan - fry it with little oil.

Well the technique i explain here we had to discover way back out here in the bush, as we did not have the money to buy an expensive smoking machine but food trend demanded it.

But it works and is the proof that smoking is not a cooking methhod, as you still have to cook it.

Therefore smoking is not a cooking method, as if you would use it as one, the taste of the wood chips or saw dust would be so over powering. Just go to Europe and look at old traditional farm houses, the smoking chamber often was fare away from the oven were the Madam cooked for the family with wood fire, as the distance mattered about hot or cold smoking.

Well i hope just to share some points here and not to offend.

regards

Kaiser

[Grumio]

What is the difference between baking & roasting?

thanks

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by Grumio

What is the difference between baking & roasting?

thanks

hi,

Booth cooking methods are done in the oven (Dry Heat). Whereas baking is always done by wrapping the product like meat (beef wellington / ham / fish) etc. in a dough (puff pastry, sour etc.) or fish in a salt crust. Whereas roasting you simply expose the product to the heat of the oven and after roasting, you can make a roasting juice (jus) form the pan drippings, which is not possible when baking.

regards

[foodnfoto]

Chef Kaiser clearly is unfamiliar with the wonders of real pit barbecue and the process of smoking meats "low and slow" until tender, delicious and falling off the bone. It's an indirect heat method where meat is stationed over a drip pan which is next to a pile of slow burning natural wood coals onto which damp smoke chips are added. Heat within the smoking vessel should never rise above 250 degrees F. Depending on the cut of meat, it generally takes about 6-10 hours of cooking with this method to thoroughly cook the meat.
Of course, quick cold smoking can be used as a flavor profile for a dish, and as a curing method. Barbecue something very different.
This is a method of cooking originally developed by native americans indigenous to the Gulf and Caribbean basin. It's first name was "barbacoa" changing to barbecue with the introduction of europeans.
Barbecue, though often confused with it, is never the same as grilling.
Another cooking method to include on your list might be tagine and clay pot cooking.

[Chef Kaiser]

Originally Posted by foodnfoto

Chef Kaiser clearly is unfamiliar with the wonders of real pit barbecue and the process of smoking meats "low and slow" until tender, delicious and falling off the bone. It's an indirect heat method where meat is stationed over a drip pan which is next to a pile of slow burning natural wood coals onto which damp smoke chips are added. Heat within the smoking vessel should never rise above 250 degrees F. Depending on the cut of meat, it generally takes about 6-10 hours of cooking with this method to thoroughly cook the meat.
Of course, quick cold smoking can be used as a flavor profile for a dish, and as a curing method. Barbecue something very different.
This is a method of cooking originally developed by native americans indigenous to the Gulf and Caribbean basin. It's first name was "barbacoa" changing to barbecue with the introduction of europeans.
Barbecue, though often confused with it, is never the same as grilling.
Another cooking method to include on your list might be tagine and clay pot cooking.

hi,

you refer with this method to high heat smoking, 70 - 120 degrees celsious. This technique is more than 400 years old and commonly used for sausages or smaller pieces of meat. The objective may have been even for the native Americans to preserve the meat for winter - well I just wonder.

How old is the terminology BBQ actually, maybe somebody knows that.

regards