Bones for stock

[eugene]

My goal is to minimize the effort to make a stock, but still to have the option to modify the taste of the stock. I want to use knorr stock cubes, but also to add some fresh vegetables or bones.

Q1.
If I add beef bones to the knorr stock, how much time am I supposed to cook the stock so that the bones will give their flavor?

Q2.
Are there other variations that are possible which maintain minimal time and effot but also the option to make different and new types of stock each time?

[foodpump]

Cooking good food is like opening up a piggy bank: You can only get out what you put in to it.

Take a good look at the bouillion cube's ingedient list, salt, yeast extracts, modified starches, maybe some natural flavours, and maybe some animal fat.

If you start off with water and bouillion cubes and slowly reduce it, you'll get salty water. Once salt is in there you can't get it out, so it's best to leave salt out of the whole process untill you start finishing the sauce.

Flavour comes from good raw ingredients, good techniques, time and patience. If you want good sauces and don't use the above mentioned tenets you will be dissapointed. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is.

[Jock]

I agree with foodpump, when it comes to stocks there are no shorcuts. It takes time to extract the flavor from the bones and to break down the collagen for that silky smooth mouth feel. If you don't allow that time you might as well dissolve the stock cube in water and be done with it.

Jock

[eugene]

Ok, so I won't add bones to cubes stock because it takes a lot of time for them to give flavor, so making your own stock will be almost the same effort/time.

But I'm sure I can add vegetables to the cubes stock, because vegetables need only maybe a half hour to extract their flavor. Am I correct?

[Austin_]

Ya, I think so. Meat bones usually take a couple to several hours to extract their flavor. Thankfully with vegetables, it only takes around a half hour to get all their flavors going. I may be wrong, that's what I always though of it as. There are no substitutes for a rich, homeade, flavorful stock. But it will be well worth it. And I like slow recipes, mainly because they are so easy. I just let it simmer and do whatever. I would reccomend buying plenty of plastic containers, and filling and labeling them with things like "vegetable stock" or "pork stock".

[foodpump]

Eugene, like I said, read the ingredient list on the stock cubes, salt is the #1 ingredient. Simmering reduces the water content of the stock, but not the salt content, so if the stock was mildly salty to start off with, it'll be sea-briny-salty when you're done.

OTOH, no one says you can't start off the stock with real ingredients in the morning using a slow-cooker, and reaping the (unsupervised) benifits 6 or 8 hours later....

[MikeLM]

Eugene-

Forget the the broth cubes. If you want to save time on stock, buy it in cans or boxes.

If you really want to save time, you can use a pressure cooker and do it with traditional ingredients. Roast the ingredients for 2 hours of so at 400 degrees, then put into the pressure cooker with water for 30 minutes at fifteen pounds.

Makes a darn nice stock.

If it doesn't taste right to you, after your broth-cube stock, add a half-cup of salt.

Mike

[OahuAmateurChef]

Originally Posted by Jock

I agree with foodpump, when it comes to stocks there are no shorcuts. It takes time to extract the flavor from the bones and to break down the collagen for that silky smooth mouth feel...

Jock

Sure there are. Pressure cookers!!

[eugene]

Ok, I'll try to make my own stock.
Today I made a rissoto with beer and knorr stock cubes. That was delicious!
Next time I'll make it with my own stock tho.
But I don't think I'll ever make a brown sauce. You have to make stock first which is 5 hours, and then another 2 hours for the brown sauce. Each time you also have to use fresh vegetables. That's a lot of work for half a pan of sauce, which I'll finish the same day with 3 dishes of spaghetti anyway.

[foodpump]

Gotta think more, Eugene. Yup, the stock takes time, and so does the brown sauce, but if you do it in large batches, you can freeze it in small portions, bringing out a portion at a time when you need it. Thus an afternoon of work will give you a few week's worth of decent sauce or stock.

Yes the stock takes time, but that doesn't mean you're hovering over the pot 4 hours solidly. Devote a day to cooking, the stock can go on with a minimum of supervision while you can do other things, doughs or cookie doughs can be portioned and frozen, vegetables preppped, whatever.

[MikeLM]

Eugene- you're not listening.

Use a pressure cooker and it takes one hour, including heat-up and cool-down time. Here's my ancient family recipe for a small Mirro brand pressure cooker.

3 lbs soup bones, roasted 2 hours at 400 deg
2 onions, chopped, leaving skin on for color
2 carrots, chopped
1 celery stalk, chopped
1/4 cup parsley, chopped
2 bay leafs
12 peppercorns
2 qts water

Put all in pressure cooker, run for 30 minutes at 15 pounds pressure.
Cool, strain and store. This freezes beautifully and keeps a long time.

This is so nice I got a 10-quart pressure cooker to make bigger batches.

Works with beef bones or chicken backs/necks/wings. I've never made veal stock, but it should be just as good.

Bon appetit!

Mike

[Jock]

Originally Posted by OahuAmateurChef

Sure there are. Pressure cookers!!

OK, I stand corrected. I've never owned a pressure cooker and didn't think of it. But does it produce the same rich, gelatinous result you get from the conventional long and slow method?

Jock

[Blueicus]

The gelatinous quality of the stock should come from the bones themselves, although I could see a potential problem of a pressure cooker in that it would make a stock cloudy since I assume the stock is going to be very agitated throughout the entire cooking process. And if it doesn't, then I should go and get a pressure cooker

[mudbug]

I tend to agree with the feedback.

A quality soup stock is never brought to a boil, but rather a bare simmer/slow boil (about 200F degrees) over a long period of time, about 6 to 8 and some even say 12 hours.

Properly extracting collagen from the bones is the secret to a good stock. Make sure to start with cold water. If the water is boiling when you add the bones, the proteins will coagulate and remain trapped inside the bones.

You can certainly get tasty stock from bullion cubes, granules, or paste - store bought, or pressure cookers, and many people are perfectly satisified with these. But I suspect the quality will still be inferior to a properly made homemade stock.

If you want to minimize effort, start your stock so you have one hour to skim the skum off the top before you go to bed, and it will be done when you wake up.

If you can pick a day to test the different methods for your self so that you can compare the taste side by side, then you'll truly understand the difference.

[MikeLM]

Jock-
I have to admit that I've never made a stock the long, slow way because my wife came with her mother's pressure-cooker recipe and when I got interested in cooking she pulled it out and we always used it. The stock is very gelatinious when cooled if your bones proportion is right. It is also a little cloudy, but I've never considered that to be a problem. I'm not trying to impress customers, so I don't care. It does taste great.

Mike