[Karamazov]

I've always loved doctoring tomato sauces, but I'm looking to make my own. I've already and looked up the way to make it, I'm just wondering about pairing certain ingredients.

With tomatoes, would it be better to use canned tomatoes or to try to find organically grown ones? Which would have the better flavor?

I was also going to use the usual ingredients like basil, olive oil, and wine. But I was wondering if there any other ingredients I could add to spice it up a little? I was thinking about some roasted red bell peppers to the sauce or other kinds of peppers.

I'm pretty new to Italian cooking, I've done mostly meat so far and i want to expand my horizons. Thanks in advance.

[Culprit]

I've never found any difference in the flavor of sauces made with organic ingredients vs those made with common good quality produce. IMHO, as far as flavor is concerned, organic is more marketing hype than meaningful culinary advantage. Here's a tomato sauce recipe that I like that might put some ideas into your head. Your idea for adding other ingredients, like roasted peppers, is a good one. Just be careful not to add too many creative ingredients at one time because that would make it difficult to analyze what went wrong if you didn't like the results.
Also, the difference in flavor between qualilty canned tomatoes and the fresh variety (if there is any) isn't worth the bother of preparing a sauce with the fresh product.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci...ml?rsrc=search

[castironchef]

I've got to agree and disagree with Culprit.

When it comes to fresh tomatoes, the organic ones will generally be superior to your usual megamart ones. The megamart tomatoes were bred to be solid and firm (read "hard as a rock") when they're picked green and shipped in huge semi-tractor trailers. Then, they're "ripened" by an ethylene atmosphere. They may look good, but they have very little tomato flavor.

Organic ones are usually locally-grown, of better varieties and picked when ripe.

Now, as to canned ones, I rely upon quality canned ones over so-so fresh ones.

[OahuAmateurChef]

castironchef's post reminds me of a Good Eats episode on tomato sauce. Pretty much what he said. The tomatoes in a can never had to look good, they only needed to be ripe. And they never needed to go through premature reddening processes.

[LAFlowers]

I have made sauce using my own fresh perfectly ripened tomatoes as well as canned. Everybody LOVES my tomato sauce. I prefer this. I only use PROGRESSO when it comes to crushed tomatoes.

Try this:

10 (or more) smashed garlic cloves simmered in 1/4 olive oil until soft
add 1 can crushed tomatoes
3 basil leaves
1 T dried oregano
simmer all for 45 min.
Add salt & pepper of course to taste

This sauce is sweet and yummy. I serve it with spaghetti.

[Karamazov]

thanks for the input

I think i'm going to go with canned tomatoes then. Which brand would you suggest i use?
And with extra ingredients, i think i will just go for red bell peppers and maybe a little crushed red pepper for spice. after roasting the bell pepper, would it be better to puree the pepper and add it in, or leave it a little chunky?

[phoebe]

As the season winds down, canned tomatoes are probably going to work better than "fresh" ones. Cook's Illustrated rated the Progresso as recommended. Hunt's is OK too but they said it comes off as too mild-tasting in a simmered sauce. Alton Brown recommends sticking with the least-processed product, which would be canned whole tomatoes. You can cut them up yourself before you put them in or while they're in the pan. And, to try to avoid possible bitterness, you might want to seed them before adding them. This is more important with fresh tomatoes, but it couldn't hurt to take a couple extra minutes with the canned ones.

I almost always start by sauteing some chopped onion, carrot and celery in olive oil. And later I'd add garlic. Then add the tomatoes and simmer.

[deltadoc]

Originally Posted by phoebe

As the season winds down, canned tomatoes are probably going to work better than "fresh" ones. Cook's Illustrated rated the Progresso as recommended. Hunt's is OK too but they said it comes off as too mild-tasting in a simmered sauce. Alton Brown recommends sticking with the least-processed product, which would be canned whole tomatoes. You can cut them up yourself before you put them in or while they're in the pan. And, to try to avoid possible bitterness, you might want to seed them before adding them. This is more important with fresh tomatoes, but it couldn't hurt to take a couple extra minutes with the canned ones.

I almost always start by sauteing some chopped onion, carrot and celery in olive oil. And later I'd add garlic. Then add the tomatoes and simmer.

I agree with Phoebe! She's starting her sauce with a basic mirepoix. And it is good to add the garlic in later as she pointed out, as too soon, the garlic gets overcooked and will turn bitter.

Based on a very informative web site (google "encyclopizza), it is hard to beat the canned tomatos as they are picked ripe, processed at lower temperatures using special canning processes, and retain more flavor and nutrients.

You might want to invest in a cheap plastic food mill, the type where you feed in the tomatoes, turn the crank, and the sauce comes out one chute into your bowl, and the skin and seeds come out another chute.

For fresh tomatoes, you must drop them in boiling water (blanching) for 2-3 minutes before putting them through the food mill, but canned whole tomatoes should probably go through as is ok.

My uncle the entrepeneur met a famous Italian chef once, and he gave him the recipe for his sauce. It consisted of crushed canned whole tomatoes, a lot of fresh garlic, a 1 tsp of sugar and some olive oil to cook the garlic in. It was a long time ago, but I don't recall that it had any basil or other herbs in it at all, which I do remember surprised me greatly. But the sauce was unbelieveable. I do also remember that it was meant to go with meatballs, and the meatball recipe included 16 whole eggs, 1 lb of ground meat, S&P, and some fennel seed and bread crumbs.

doc

[MikeLM]

Several articles have recommended the Italian San Marzano variety, and we picked up six or eight cans when Whole Foods had them on sale a couple months ago. They make a very nice sauce, pretty much as described above.

Mike

[mudbug]

Originally Posted by Karamazov

With tomatoes, would it be better to use canned tomatoes or to try to find organically grown ones? Which would have the better flavor?

I was also going to use the usual ingredients like basil, olive oil, and wine.

I'm pretty new to Italian cooking, I've done mostly meat so far and i want to expand my horizons. Thanks in advance.

Traditionally, the best tomato sauces are made from San Marzano (as MikeLM mentions above) tomatoes which are paste tomato types. Why? Because they have less water content they are better for sauces. You should be able to find them canned and last I knew they can not be packaged as San Marzanos unless they were grown in the San Marzano valley in the Campania region of Italy. Look here for an existing thread regarding San Marzanos and plum/paste type tomatoes, specifically post #12 at that thread.

The more you learn about Italian cuisine, the more you'll realize it's all about simplicity and the quality comes from the freshest ingredients possible.

Originally Posted by Karamazov

would it be better to puree the pepper and add it in, or leave it a little chunky?

This depends on the palettes of those you are serving. It also depends on the size and shape of the pasta you will be using.

[Jzone]

I agree with everyone else that canned tomatoes are as good or better than fresh. The only exception is that I like to make roasted tomato sauce and roasting the tomatoes first is difficult with canned :-)

As for roasted red peppers, I find roasting them separately and canning them to use whenever you like is best. I start with the basic tomato sauce and add the roasted peppers if needed. the flavor is no different than adding them before hand.

As for the garlic, tons of garlic works for me. I just crush about a bulb worth and let them warm up slowly in the olive oil to flavor the oil. They dissolve and the taste is everywhere in the sauce. very nice.

After that I think anything you "want" to add is worth trying, but simple is usually best and add stuff later when serving. Some things I've tried that work quite well are:
anchovies: dissolve them in with the garlic. does not taste fishy, just adds salt and a nutty flavor
capers: again salt and good depth.
flavored oils such as truffle oil etc: again, more depth of flavor.
bacon grease instead of olive oil for flavor: good when making an ameritriciano sauce.
any fresh herbs at the end will work, or when making it at the time for service.
dried herbs great too, but you have to be carefull as they can make it bitter quickly. I add extra sugar when using dried herbs.

Hope any of this helps.

Jason



Jason

[Jock]

If you are going organic (and I would recommend it) there are a number of good organic canned tomatoes on the market these days. My favorite is Muir Glen. They have an organic roasted tomato as well.

Although I believe that organic products do taste better than conventional, it isn't all about the tatse. It is about all the nasty stuff you find on conventional products (pesticides, GM foods, etc.) and sustainable farming that makes the difference for me.

Jock

[gonefishin]

Hi There

I'm not sure where you live, But don't forget to check some of the local "ethnic" grocery stores. The San Marzano's at the Italian grocery stores in my area are also cheaper than all the domestics at the "regular" grocery stores.

I also use whole plum's when making sauce. I just drop them in...and squash them a few times with a potato masher.

take care,
dan

[Suzanne]

Actually, it IS possible to roast whole canned tomatoes; we used to do it at work. These have the advantage of already being peeled. Drain them well, squeeze out the seeds, mix them with a little olive oil, and spread out on a baking sheet. Roast as you would fresh, until somewhat dry and very lightly browned.

I agree that good canned are better than out-of-season "fresh." And now is a good time to get canned (in the Northern Hemisphere, anyway) because they will be this year's crop.

What I like to do is make a big batch of plain sauce, with mirepoix and tomatoes and not much else. I portion it out, and when I'm ready to use it, that's when I add my other flavorings. This way I can tailor it to the dish I want to make. I like to add chopped fennel and crushed fennel seeds; sliced or chopped good-quality green or black olives; anchovies and hot pepper flakes; dried herbs (for dishes in which the sauce will simmer a long time) or fresh herbs (for quick dishes); and, yes, diced roasted peppers. Sometimes I add several of these. You can add whatever you like, really, as long as you don't worry about the sauce being "authentic."

[scott123]

Originally Posted by deltadoc

Based on a very informative web site (google "encyclopizza), it is hard to beat the canned tomatos as they are picked ripe, processed at lower temperatures using special canning processes, and retain more flavor and nutrients.

Well, this is all fairly subjective, but for pizza, I prefer a bright, acidic, fresher tasting sauce but for pasta/meatballs/lasagna I like the sweeter/duller flavor of a long simmered sauce (or a short simmered sauce that utilizes a dark shade of paste).

Originally Posted by deltadoc

My uncle the entrepeneur met a famous Italian chef once, and he gave him the recipe for his sauce. It consisted of crushed canned whole tomatoes, a lot of fresh garlic, a 1 tsp of sugar and some olive oil to cook the garlic in. It was a long time ago, but I don't recall that it had any basil or other herbs in it at all, which I do remember surprised me greatly. But the sauce was unbelievable.

I'm with your Uncle's famous friend and his herbless approach. In fact, I can't eat commercial pasta sauces because of their ubiquitously heavy handed approach to dried herbs. I dislike dried oregano, but dried basil- that's just disgusting. I use fresh basil in pizza sauce. In pasta/meatball/lasagna sauce, I'm herb free.

And, again, it's totally subjective, but I love raw, bright, fragrant and fresh minced garlic in pizza sauce, but in pasta sauce, it's all about the caramelized onions.

The one 'bright' flavor that I add to pasta sauce but omit from pizza sauce is evoo. I use a small amount of evoo (about 1/10 the total oil) to give a slight olivey note. Other than that, my pasta sauce is all about deep, rich, decadent and lush flavors.