Adding Vegetables to Chicken Stock

[shel]

Most stock recipes I've seen suggest adding the veggies to the stock at the beginning of cooking. Some, however, suggest adding the veggies later. What are the pros and cons of these different techniques?

Shel

[Ishbel]

I always start my stock with the vegetables in the water, along with the chicken carcasses. I use a bouquet garni, containing bay leaves and thyme. a small handful (about 12) black peppercorns, carrots, onions and celery in chunks.

[shel]

Originally Posted by Ishbel

I always start my stock with the vegetables in the water, along with the chicken carcasses. I use a bouquet garni, containing bay leaves and thyme. a small handful (about 12) black peppercorns, carrots, onions and celery in chunks.

Fine .... but the question was what, if any, are the pros and cons of adding the veggies one way or the other? I suspect there's little, if any, difference in the outcome, however, I'm in a curious mood this morning.

Shel

[GhettoRacingKid]

I think the con for adding vegtables later would be that the flavors would not extract and flavor the water as if would if it was in there from the beginging.

[shel]

Originally Posted by GhettoRacingKid

I think the con for adding vegtables later would be that the flavors would not extract and flavor the water as if would if it was in there from the beginging.

I thought about that. When making a vegetable broth or stock, simmering times are generally much less than when making a chicken or meat stock, so it would seem thjat veggies don't need as much time in the water to infuse the liquid with flavor. OTOH, I wonder if there might not be some reaction between the veggies and the chicken or meat components that enhances the stock in some way when the veggies are added at the beginning of the process.

Just thinking out loud,

Shel

[Mezzaluna]

I use veggies early on to enhance the broth's flavor when making chicken soup.

Later, toward the end of the cooking time, I fish out the "used up" veggies (onion, carrot, celery, fesh dill stalks) and add fresh carrots and celery to cook until tender to serve in the broth. Sometimes I add a few pinches of fresh dillweed just for looks- not too much though.

[Ishbel]

Originally Posted by shel

Fine .... but the question was what, if any, are the pros and cons of adding the veggies one way or the other? I suspect there's little, if any, difference in the outcome, however, I'm in a curious mood this morning.

Shel

Oops - sorry for not replying to your question.

[GhettoRacingKid]

As far as i know there are no "reactions"

The onyl reaction that really happens possibly is if you use hot water in the stock. When the hot water hits the bones, chicken or what ever your using to make the stock the collagen and what not gets stuck to the bone and never releases. The collagen is what gives the stock/broth the body

As ron popel says. "Set it and Forget it"

[foodpump]

What I do, is bring the bones and water to a boil first, then turn down to a simmer, then add in the bouquet garni.

Why? Special reason, flavour extraction or other theory?

Nope. But I cans skim off the scum and foam a heck of alot easier without the bouquet garni and various herbs getting in the way. Don't think that first few minutes without the bouqet is going to make a huge difference.

[Someday]

I say there is a pretty noticeable difference in the outcome.

I add the veg in the last hour of cooking the stock. The aroma of the vegetables is at the peak about 1 hour into cooking, after that the aroma fades and gets a mushy, overcooked vegetable taste. You said it yourself--why don't we cook vegetable stock for 5 hours? Cause it would taste nasty. Why would you want that nasty vegetable taste in your chicken stock or veal stock? 1 hour is plenty of time for the flavor and aroma to come out from the vegetables. Just like veg. stock.

If you don't believe me try cooking a veg stock for 4 hours and tell me what you think.

On the other hand, you can just omit the veg. from the stock and keep it basic and neutral. Veg flavorings, as well as herbs and spices, can always be added later to enhance flavors of sauces and soups. May be beneficial to just have a "blank" stock with which to work with.

The only "pro" I can think of for adding veg in the beginning is that it's a little easier not having to think about it.

But I would definately add the veg 1 to 2 hours (max) before I pull the stock off.

[Chad Aaland]

Originally Posted by Ishbel

I always start my stock with the vegetables in the water, along with the chicken carcasses. I use a bouquet garni, containing bay leaves and thyme. a small handful (about 12) black peppercorns, carrots, onions and celery in chunks.

That's actually a sachet...but I'm impressed that you make your own stock at home.

[Ishbel]

Originally Posted by Chad Aaland

That's actually a sachet...but I'm impressed that you make your own stock at home.

Well, OK, traditionally I should put the celery and bayleaves and thyme together with some leek... but as those veggies are floating in the water, along with the peppercorns, I used the same term!

[AprilB]

What I've discovered is adding vegetables later maintains the integrity of the individual flavors of the vegetables.

I frequently make stew this way.

Personally I like 'just chicken broth'. I also roast or cook strong flavored vegetables separately, like carrots for instance. My personal taste is they can tend to be overpowering in a broth, unless that's what you're after.

If you simmer the chicken with all of the veggies from the get go you will get a more homogenous mix of flavors.

Herbs are a different animal. They need to be simmered with the original stock to maximize flavor. (except s & p obviously)

So I guess the bottom line is the pros or cons are dependent on your own personal taste.

April
<uhhh....this doesn't help does it?.... >

[shel]

Hi,

Many of the replies here have been helpful. Last night I did some reading from a book that focused solely on poultry, and it also suggested adding the veggies later. I'll add the veggies later in the next batch of stock or broth that I make.

Shel