Do you get your veggies organic

[akila001]

Do you get your veggies organic, conventionally grown or regular? Can you notice a difference in taste? Do you know how unhealthy it is to eat non-organic vegetables?

[panini]

I shop at a Large Grocery called Sprouts. It's all organic. Flavor really depends on how it is grown and picked. But it's not bad.
I don't think eating non-organic is any less harmfull then breathing our air.
pan

[Suzanne]

That last sentence sounds a lot like a challenge, not a request for information! Remember that technically, all plants are "organic," in that they're a carbon-based life form.

My philosophy is: if I can taste a difference, as with carrots, I will try to buy the organically or sustainably grown version. However, I believe it is more important to "eat local" and support small farms -- farms are, after all, the lungs of the earth (along with trees). If I can get organics at my farmers' market, that's perfect. But otherwise, I will take what they have, knowing that I can always ask them how things are grown (and not buy if I don't like the answer). It's a trade-off in any case: the pollution from shipping "organically grown" food thousands of miles (and compromised freshness) versus a small local farmer doing his/her best to be a good steward of the land and make it available soon after picking.

Given that choice, which do you prefer, akila001?

[Someday]

Ugh.

IMO, there is nothing wrong, on a base level, of using pesticides, anti-biotics, etc when making animals and plants to eat.

the problem lies in the overall, unspecific and blanket use of these things on a routing and daily basis.

Look, say I have a trusted supplier of great beef, and I know the guy, works his land, tends his cattle, takes care of them, does all the right things, etc. I think it's perfectly OK for him to use an anti-biotic on one of his cows IF THEY GET SICK. No problem. I'd still buy from him, cause I know he takes care of his cows, his meat, his land, and is concious about the environment and whatnot, and does a good job. He should be the norm.

The agribusiness that puts anti-biotics in the feed everyday? No thanks.

Organic? Well, what is that? Is it really better than my trusted supplier, even though he can't put "organic" on his label? Not really.

Is there something wrong with someone using safe pesticides on their crops if there is an infestation? No. A local farmer, turning out superior product, working the land, etc, who uses the occasional safe pesticide to protect his/her crops is fine with me. Why not?

Again, its the blanket use of those products, "crop dusting" and stuff, that shouldn't be done.

To me, it isn't an all or nothing situation. The key is to know your suppliers and garner trust...see thier land, see where they work.

[Jock]

I try to buy organic when I can but I'm not obsessive about it. I often buy at the Farmer's Market but that is only open on a limited basis so other times I got to Whole Foods. In either case, if I can get organic I will if not, I figure I won't die from buying conventionally grown produce.

One thing I will not buy though is farm raised salmon. Not since I saw a PBS documentary on how they are raised. It's wild or nothing for me.

Jock

[akila001]

I definitely agree on the fish. It is terrible how they raise them. Chicken is the same. I cannot eat chicken at a restaurant anymore, unless I know it is organic.

It is just so scary to see how far they go to mass produce all this meat, fish, and veggies. They use all this type of products, and since we are first generation under this new trend we won't know the effects for a while.

All I can tell is that eating the same food and back home in France, I can taste the difference, and can see it on my body.

But you are also right that local farmers often times have the best products. I fully support this little store by my house. They sell authentic fresh, organic products and their prices are the same as a major grocery store.

thanks for all your guys opinions!

[Ishbel]

I only use organic meats when cooking - and mostly organic fruits and veg - but I do try to ensure that I buy mostly local and seasonal veg - which can be quite boring in the midst of a Scots winter!

[indianwells]

Originally Posted by Ishbel

I only use organic meats when cooking - and mostly organic fruits and veg - but I do try to ensure that I buy mostly local and seasonal veg - which can be quite boring in the midst of a Scots winter!

Neeps & Tatties most nights then Ish?

[shel]

Originally Posted by Suzanne

My philosophy is: if I can taste a difference, as with carrots, I will try to buy the organically or sustainably grown version. However, I believe it is more important to "eat local" and support small farms -- farms are, after all, the lungs of the earth (along with trees). If I can get organics at my farmers' market, that's perfect. But otherwise, I will take what they have, knowing that I can always ask them how things are grown (and not buy if I don't like the answer). It's a trade-off in any case: the pollution from shipping "organically grown" food thousands of miles (and compromised freshness) versus a small local farmer doing his/her best to be a good steward of the land and make it available soon after picking.

First of all, over the past few years large corporations have gotten on the organic bandwagon (you might be surprised at how many "organic" brands Philip Moris, a cigarette company, owns - I won't support them buy buying their products), and through their lobbying efforts the US Gummint has ripped the heart out of organic standards. I won't go into all the details, but you can can do your own research on the subject and come to your own conclusions. So, given that a product in the market has only a USDA Organic label on it, it's quite possible, as Suzanne suggests, to find a non-organic product at, for example, a Farmer's Market, that's actually more organic even though not quite fully organic.

Over the least year or so I've checked on the ownership of various organic companies and have concluded that, as quickly as I can find high-quality organic replacements for some brands, I will stop buying/using certain products, and have already stopped buying some even though a replacement hasn't been found. I, and others in the San Francisco area, are, more and more, supporting smaller, local farms, and even Whole Foods (that bastion of corporate organic and imported Chinese-grown vegetables) is providing more locally grown produce.

So, there's organic: http://www.organicconsumers.org/orga...lots060905.cfm and there's better quality organic that adheres to a higher standard.

Since I posted a link to Horizon dairy, I'll mention a local dairy (one of several in the area) that run cleaner operations, with greater care to their cows and land. They produce organic milk and non organic (non-RBST) milk. Given the choice, I'd go for the organic milk, but have absolutely no qualms or reservations about their non-organic milk. I've seen one of the operations, and have known about it for years, and have always been impressed by the cleanliness of the plant and the beauty of the well-cared for pastures. They claim, and I've no reason to doubt them, that their locally produced milk goes from cow to bottle in six hours, and is delivered to stores as quickly as possible. I can taste the difference between the milk produced from this producer and that from other "organic" dairies.

The same goes for vegetables. I want locally grown, in season, organic vegetables from known reputable suppliers, but will consider non-organic if the supplier does a good job producing what I want to put into my body. Sometimes pesticide-free local produce is a better choice than USDA certified organic grown in Mexico, China, Argentina, or who-knows-where. Recently there was a report about a produce field in Mexico that was using runoff from a jeans manufacturing plant to irrigate it's fields, runoff that contained manufacturing wastes. I don't need to eat that crap. And neither do you.

So, as Suzanne suggested, and as I concur, there's organic and then there's Organic Read your labels, do your homework, and make your own decisions. I've made mine.

Shel (getting of the soapbox now)

[gonefishin]

Organic doesn't give you any assurance that a product (chicken, egg vegetable) was raised/grown using a certain standard. Today...it has become a term that is sometimes exploited and used simply as a marketing term.

Like some others have said...I don't care if vegetable meets today's "organic" standards or not. Heck...the seeds used for vegetables have "organic" labels as well...are you sure your vegetables were grown using "organic" seeds as well.

Todays mass marketed vegetables seem to be grown and harvested for purposes of selling the maximum amount of vegetables year round. The plant varieties aren't selected for flavor, texture, aroma. They are picked for high yields and visual appeal. This is were I think some "organics" have an advantage right from the start. The varieties are selected to produce a good product, where taste is a consideration.

Couple the above with general good care for most "organic" plants with proper harvesting of RIPE vegetables accounts for more of the reason why todays "organics" taste better than the mass marketed, high yield, low flavor, unripened fruits and vegetables that we have become accustomed to.

Most of todays fruits, vegetables and meats are not bred for flavor. You can easily grow a good tasting vegetable with some use of pesticides in your garden. But it starts with a good seed!


just my $.02

dan

[Suzanne]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

Organic doesn't give you any assurance that a product (chicken, egg vegetable) was raised/grown using a certain standard. Today...it has become a term that is sometimes exploited and used simply as a marketing term.. . .

No and yes. The local organic-farming organizations (such as NOFA, the Northeast Organic Farming Association) that have been around for years have their own fairly strict standards. The "official" standards are quite different, and yes, cannot always be trusted (imo).

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Suzanne

No and yes. The local organic-farming organizations (such as NOFA, the Northeast Organic Farming Association) that have been around for years have their own fairly strict standards. The "official" standards are quite different, and yes, cannot always be trusted (imo).

Thanks for making that clear Suzanne. Yeah, I meant the more generic term "organic".

happy eating!
dan

[Ishbel]

After reading some of the comments in this thread, it would appear that in the UK things are much more tightly controlled re 'organic' labelling than would appear to be the case in the USA.

ALL organic foods should have stickers showing Soil Association approval. I ensure that ALL the organic foods I buy are either from my local, organic only butcher (his family also raises the beasts and also grow some crops).

I have tried to eat mostly organic produce/meats for the past 20 years. I do not consider it a fad. It is a choice I have made for me and my family. It is more expensive, of course, and I realise that we don't all have that luxury. I started eating organically when we couldn't really afford to do it either. It is not always possible to buy organic fruit/veg though - so I buy when I can, but don't fret about it when I can't.

Apart from frozen peas, I do not buy frozen veg at all - I consider them almost inedible in most examples.

Still, wouldn't do if we ALL ate or wanted to eat the same thing, would it?

[Jock]

As far as the term "Organic" goes I think you have to distinguish between a generic organic label and one that is "Certified Organic". Those products are subject to certain standards that for the most part are consistent. Although some producers do play fast and loose with the labeling. As with most other products, the rule "Buyer Beware" applies. We as consumers need to educate ourselves and buy responsibly. And for that we can always rely on the collective wisdom of Chef Talkers

Jock