brown roux

i'm interested in making brown roux in large quantity (20 KG)- would it be better to dry roast the flour in the oven and then make the roux in a tilt fryer? can i dry roast to the final color i want ?

thanks uri

[Dlee]

uri,

When I am doing a dark roux, I will toast my flour in the oven. Then Cook it on the stove in a large rondeau, where I can have a bit more control over the heat.

You also need to be cautious when you are toasting the flour. The Flour will appear lighter than it actually is. Also remember to constantly stir the flour while it is being toasted.

Another point is, I will use a bit more "Fat" then if I was making a normal roux.

Making a brown Roux will take a little bit of pratice, because, there is a fine line between a brown roux and a burnt roux. You will learn about "carry over cooking" Doing this project.

D.Lee

[kokopuffs]

Question: does it make a difference to use pastry flour instead of all purpose flour in a roux? I hear that pastry flour makes a finer textured roux.

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

[Kimmie]

Uri,

Here's what Madeleine Kamman says:

"A heavy-bottomed pot is a must, since a flame tamer of any kind will not prevent the flour from burning in a thin saucepan when set over the heat for as long as this will be. A black or an enameled cast-iron pot gives the best results. For larger quantities, start the cooking on the stove and finish it in a 275 degree F oven; stir often during the last stages of cooking. Clarified butter results in a much better tasting sauce, for the milk solids in the butter have been removed and do not burn as the roux cooks at length.

It is essential that you understand what is going to happen. In order to obtain a nice hazelnut brown color, you need to cook the flour deeply, and in doing so you are going to destroy three quarters of its thickening power. So that you do not burn the whole amount of flour, leaving shrunken, deep-toasted starch cells that cannot absorb liquid anymore, it is essential that you proceed very slowly. The proportions and cooking times are as follows:

Fat-Oil / Flour / Cooking time
1/4 cup / 3 tbsp. / 10 minutes
7 tbsp. / 6 tbsp. / 15 minutes
½ cup / ½ cup / 15 minutes on the stove plus 5 minutes in the oven."

I know you're trying to make 20 kilos at a time and the above chart may be unsignificant. I would experiment with a small amount just to practice then jump into the larger project.

------------

Koko,

A fine textured roux comes from skimming, not from pastry flour. Here's an excerpt from Madeleine Kamman:

"As soon as a stock-based flour-bound sauce boils, a skin forms at its surface; the skin thickens as the sauce simmers and becomes scum. This scum is made of some of the proteins and fibers contained in the flour. Below the scum is a layer of liquid fat; it is the butter, fat, or oil used to prepare the roux; first thrown into emulsion in the sauce by the strong boiling motion, it now breaks out of emulsion as the sauce slowly simmers and accumulates in a large puddle, under the scum. The immediate reaction of a brand-new cook will be to stir both scum and fat back into the sauce, which is the worst thing to do, for this is precisely what results in one of those heavy sauces responsible for people thinking that classic sauces are heavy, fat, and unhealthy. Unskimmed sauces have a gummy texture and appear greasy and dirty, and damage the properly prepared foods they accompany.

Technique: Using the long "belly" side, not the tip of a large sauce spoon, and starting from the center of the pot out towards its sides, lift both scum and fat and discard both."

Note: I should add that flour-bound sauces made with milk or cream need not and cannot be skimmed, because the sum and fat are trapped in the very viscous milky sol and cannot be disassociated from it.

Hope this helps.

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]

[kokopuffs]

Thanks, Kimmie. What I understand the info to say is that flour type doesn't matter. It's a question of skimming the scum and top layer of fat, the excess fat.

[Kimmie]

Yes Koko, according to Kamman anyway. I haven't found anything else on the subject though.

[isaac]

i would certinaly recomend browing the roux in the oven. the oven will provide you even heat and less of a chance you will burn it. i have done this serveral times in larg amounts. i suggest a low oven and that you stir it every once and a while. i hope this helps

thanks to dlee and kimmie for their helpful advice - i successfuly made a first batch of 6 kg of a brown roux by toasting the flour in a 145c oven for approximately an hour, then continuing to darken it in the tilt fryer with the margarine.

[Kimmie]

Margarine!!!

[kokopuffs]

Hey, let's talk sacrilege, here.

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

[Dlee]

KyleW,

I agree, I have used duck fat, chicken fat, veal fat, pork fat, all to make a roux for a specfic purpose.

D.Lee

A roux, equal quantities of flour and butter (or oil or margarine), I prefer butter and find the resultant dishes thickened with it are substantially better in quality and taste.

As for method of making, I worked in a 1300 bed hospital where I made roux in 40KG lots, I just bunged it on the gas in a heavy stock pot and cooked away. As mentioned earlier look out for carry over cooking, as it does make black from brown.

[Dlee]

uri nusinow,

I also use margarine when possible, especially when I am doing a large amount of roux.

Kimmie and kokopuffs,

To use margarine in a professional kitchen on certain items is a cost effective method. (The cost saving is almost by half if not more.) We will use butter to finish a sauce or soup to enhance the flavor and/or smoothen out the product.

D. Lee

[ August 20, 2001: Message edited by: Dlee ]

[KyleW]

I think it also depends on what the roux is being used in and how brown you want it to be. I use vegetable oil when I make a roux for gumbo, for example. I let the roux get milk chocolate brown which takes more heat and time than butter could handle.

well, sacrilege or not, i guess it depends on your point of view; but i didn't mention that i work in a kosher kitchen!! so margarine is the reality -butter would surely be far more tasty but also far more expensive, at least here in israel.