Stock in a Box

[Grumio]

I sympathize, Shel, but a cooking show's purpose is to deliver eyeballs to advertisers. Nothing more. Anything good that happens along the way is gravy, so to speak.

As for a dumbing-down of cooking, well, is that really a huge problem? Anyone whose cooking begins & ends with what they see on television gets what they deserve. AND they're probably happy with that. AND they're probably cooking & eating better than they were before to boot.

If, as is probably common enough, someone makes something pretty tasty off TV & is inspired to dig a little deeper, they're not going to get too far without hearing & reading the praises of homemade stock. And if they have the time & inclination, they'll try it.

[oldschool1982]

IMHPO, Stock,in it's basic hot off the stove form, has relatively little of rounded flavor that comes from what you do with the stock. It should almost be flat with the hint of what it is. It isn't untill you add the herbs, salt and other ingredients of the recipe it is being used in that it takes on a true life. So please don't confuse stocks with broths, reductions, or the "finished product".

As far as boxed vs. fresh. There is nothing that beats fresh so for argument sake, when you can make fresh then that's what should be used. As an alternative, again IMHPO, a boxed stock when using all the same ingredients and technique that I would in a fresh made version, is available, that would be my preferance basically because of the shelf stable nature of the product. Now If I could put a walk-in freezer and refrigerator in my home, that would be a different story.

And for anyone that has ever used a "base" or "flavor enhancer" to help a fresh made stock along...... Then you need not slam the box stuff and just call it a difference in technique.

The only boxed stock I have found that has absolutly no "extra ingredients" or excessive salt is made by Kitchen Basics. The list of ingredients is simple. Take chicken stock for example. Water, Chicken bones, vegetable stocks (celery, onion, carrot and mushroom), bay, thyme, pepper and...... nothing else. Not even salt. Definitely tastes flat until I add the other ingredients.

As far as I'm concerned ther is a great deal of "ba$tardized" foods out there and those should be emptied off the shelves like yesterdays trash. But there are a couple alternatives to the 18hr process (and yes if you're gonna do it correctly it is an 18hr process) that should be given a chance. Just because TFN has sold out doesn't mean that all the stuff they're peddling is crap. Consider some of the things your "diamond in the rough".

[Ninja_59]

Originally Posted by oldschool1982

IMHPO, Stock,in it's basic hot off the stove form, has relatively little of rounded flavor that comes from what you do with the stock. It should almost be flat with the hint of what it is. It isn't untill you add the herbs, salt and other ingredients of the recipe it is being used in that it takes on a true life. So please don't confuse stocks with broths, reductions, or the "finished product".

As far as boxed vs. fresh. There is nothing that beats fresh so for argument sake, when you can make fresh then that's what should be used. As an alternative, again IMHPO, a boxed stock when using all the same ingredients and technique that I would in a fresh made version, is available, that would be my preferance basically because of the shelf stable nature of the product. Now If I could put a walk-in freezer and refrigerator in my home, that would be a different story.

And for anyone that has ever used a "base" or "flavor enhancer" to help a fresh made stock along...... Then you need not slam the box stuff and just call it a difference in technique.

The only boxed stock I have found that has absolutly no "extra ingredients" or excessive salt is made by Kitchen Basics. The list of ingredients is simple. Take chicken stock for example. Water, Chicken bones, vegetable stocks (celery, onion, carrot and mushroom), bay, thyme, pepper and...... nothing else. Not even salt. Definitely tastes flat until I add the other ingredients.

As far as I'm concerned ther is a great deal of "ba$tardized" foods out there and those should be emptied off the shelves like yesterdays trash. But there are a couple alternatives to the 18hr process (and yes if you're gonna do it correctly it is an 18hr process) that should be given a chance. Just because TFN has sold out doesn't mean that all the stuff they're peddling is crap. Consider some of the things your "diamond in the rough".

Hi

Do you know if it is sold in Canada ? , i can only find it on amazon, not too keen of amazon

[Austin_]

Originally Posted by shel

And yet you see it written and hear it said with such great frequency that good stock can be the basis for great cooking. Having visted a few great kitchens and seen some excellent, well regarded chefs and staff work, it was clear that they all made their own stock.

Shel

Agreed. Sorry, I meant to say few. I was mainly refering to Rachael Ray, Sandra lee escpecially, etc., who aren't really chefs, but rely on storebought, easy, quick, etc culinary point of views. You're right- a good stock is quite often the base of great culinary creations. I honestly cannot stand the taste of chicken noodle soup with canned broth- but it is utterly divine with a rich, homemade one. There are many chefs who are all 100% homemade, and I realized what I just said was stupid. Again, I was mainly refering to Sandra lee, Rachael ray, and not that's it a bad thing, but whose recipes are based on either semi-homemade, or quick and easy. Now that I think of it, I can't remember many restaurants I ever went to that used canned broth in the first place.

[shel]

Originally Posted by Grumio

I sympathize, Shel, but a cooking show's purpose is to deliver eyeballs to advertisers. Nothing more.

Then we have a fundamental difference of opinion about the purpose of a cooking show ...

Shel

[KYHeirloomer]

Just what do you think is the purpose of a cooking show, if not to deliver eyeballs to advertisers?

I would also disagree with you about the whole concept of the dumbing down of cookery. In fact, just the opposite has been happening the past decade or so.

If you want to discuss this we can start a new thread, rather than hijack this one any further.

[shel]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

Just what do you think is the purpose of a cooking show, if not to deliver eyeballs to advertisers?

If you want to discuss this we can start a new thread, rather than hijack this one any further.

To teach techniques, explore new possibilities, to inspire the viewers and let them know that they can be creative and provide good food and meals in ways other than using prepared foods. To me, that's not cooking. That's assemblage.

Sure start a new thread if you'd like.

Shel

[shel]

Originally Posted by oldschool1982

And for anyone that has ever used a "base" or "flavor enhancer" to help a fresh made stock along...... Then you need not slam the box stuff and just call it a difference in technique.

The only boxed stock I have found that has absolutly no "extra ingredients" or excessive salt is made by Kitchen Basics. The list of ingredients is simple. Take chicken stock for example. Water, Chicken bones, vegetable stocks (celery, onion, carrot and mushroom), bay, thyme, pepper and...... nothing else. Not even salt. Definitely tastes flat until I add the other ingredients.

I've never used any enhancers - don't think I ever would.

Kitchen Basics huh ... FWIW - and it may not be worth very much - Cook's Illustrated did a taste test on numerous chicken broths, and Kitchen Basics was not recommended.

Not one taster believed this brand really was chicken broth. Medicinal and beefy - are you sure this is chicken?" asked one worried tester. "Tastes like vegemite tea." Beads of oil floated on top

I found the product to be rather distasteful myself.

Shel

[Mezzaluna]

I use Swanson's Natural Goodness (reduced sodium) as the basis of my broth. I can't say it's stock; no bones are involved.

I simmer a good deal of leek, dill, parsley and some carrots in the broth for at least an hour. It comes out delicous. I don't do this to save time; I do this to avoid the mess of using fresh chicken. I made my first pot of homemade chicken soup when I was about 10 years old, so I know whereof I speak.

[shel]

Originally Posted by Mezzaluna

I use Swanson's Natural Goodness (reduced sodium) as the basis of my broth. I can't say it's stock; no bones are involved.

I am going to try one or two of the Swanson products and maybe the Wolfgang Puck. Of all the products I know of, those are the only ones I've not tried. My purpose in using them would be to save time if I'm out of stock in my freezer and feel a desire to make something that requires a broth.

I sometimes use the terms stock and broth interchangeably. I usually mean broth - what I make is made from meat on the bone - using whole legs, wings, backs, and so on.

Yesterday my poultry guy gave me about 5-lbs of breast bones with plenty of meat on them ;-))

Thanks,

Shel

[oldschool1982]

Shel,

This is not meant to mince words but does that mean you have never used a base like Minors, LeGout, Better than Boullion or (God forbid) any number of the the dozen other bases out there that utilize salt as the main ingredient? BTW none of the three listed have salt as the main ingredient.

I never put much stock (no pun intended) in cooks illustrated and with that said taste and opinions (mine included) are extreemly subjective.

It certainly wasn't my objective to sway or completely change your opinion. All I wanted to do was just offer an option I believed to be worth looking into. I guess after 30 years cooking professionally, hundreds of recipes and over 20 successful menu's designed (not including the concepts that utilized seasonal menu's) my pallette is just not as defined as yours? Then again you did ask in the first post if we had found any stock out there to be of satisfactory quality.

[shel]

Originally Posted by oldschool1982

Shel,

This is not meant to mince words but does that mean you have never used a base like Minors, LeGout, Better than Boullion or (God forbid) any number of the the dozen other bases out there that utilize salt as the main ingredient? BTW none of the three listed have salt as the main ingredient.

I never put much stock (no pun intended) in cooks illustrated and with that said taste and opinions (mine included) are extreemly subjective.

Never, never, never. In fact, I've never heard of the first two.

As for Cook's Illustrated, I did say FWIW. While I think CI has something to offer, I let my (gift) subscrition lapse. This was in part because many of their revelations were things that I, as an amatuer cook, had known about for years, although they made a big deal about their discoveries. I don't hold CI in as high esteem as others might.

True, I did ask for alternatives, and I hope I didn't come across as "snippy" with my comments on your chicken broth suggestion. I didn't mean to be, that's for sure.

My philosophy in cooking - as in many areas of my life - is to keep things real and simple. I'm not one for shortcuts or time saving devices or techniques, unless there's a real benefit, sometimes more than just saving time.

I'd rather do without than use something I don't like or that removes me too far from the process. I suppose that when it comes to stock/broth, I just like making it. I like the idea of saving meat or chicken pieces in the fridge or freezer, I like the interaction at the market with the customers and staff when buying needed items, the way the house smells when the 12-quart stockpot is simmering. I even like snacking on the used up meat, especially chicken pieces. I pull whatever spent meat I can from the bones, sit at the table, and nibble away, sharing the treat with my cats, who love the stuff. I sometimes put some Marie Sharp's hot sauce on my pieces.

For me it's more than just an end result - it's the journey that matters as well, perhaps as much as the result. And, silly as it may sound, it's wonderful sharing a meal with "mis gatos."

Thus far I've not found anything to make me want to take a shortcut on my journey to making good broth.

Shel