Robert Irvine versus Gordon Ramsay

[Free Rider]

Originally Posted by Smylietron

True, he has a nasty side, but isn't that how professional kitchens work? Experienced chefs I've talked with have said the head chef must at times be a monster in order to keep things running properly. You don't create a restaurant empire by coddling your staff. I think it's telling that he has so many loyal workers.

Not in the professional kitchen where I worked. Humiliating one's staff is not good leadership. If you have to be a monster to your employees, you're doing something dreadfully wrong. Does Ramsay have so many loyal workers? Or are they like the quintessential abused wife, with such low self-esteem that they fear nobody else would want them?

[abefroman]

Originally Posted by Free Rider

Not in the professional kitchen where I worked. Humiliating one's staff is not good leadership. If you have to be a monster to your employees, you're doing something dreadfully wrong. Does Ramsay have so many loyal workers? Or are they like the quintessential abused wife, with such low self-esteem that they fear nobody else would want them?

I like his philosophy, hey if you don't screw up you won't get bitched out right? He's not yelling at them to be mean or because he doesn't like them, it to provide a good experience for the customer and so the restaurant makes money.

[Ishbel]

Freerider - just look at the chefs who CHOOSE to run Ramsay kitchens here in the UK, including Marcus Wareing (ace, by the way!) at Petrus. He also promotes women... Always a plus in my book - eg Angela Hartnett at the Connaught Gordon Ramsay's kitchen queen: Meet Angela Hartnett | Food monthly | The Observer

[ChefSean]

You can tell a lot about a person by doing some reading. Both Chef Ramsay and Chef Irvine have published books about themselves and their cooking.

The OP mentioned Chef Irvine in Kitchen Nightmares. Chef Irvine is not in any episode of that show. In that episode, Chef Ramsay was at an Italian restaurant in Long Island, NY named "Peter's". The big, beefy guy who was yelling and cursing was the manager and brother of the owner of "Peter's". His name is Peter Pelligrino, and I suppose he might look a bit like Chef Irvine on quick glance.

I am a fan of each of the chefs. Each has a cooking and leadership style that are at the same time delightful and insightful.

Chef Irvine is a master event planner and cook. Anyone who can cook gourmet foods at the incredible level of precision that Irvine does, all while cooking in conditions that are truly less than ideal, is a master. His "kitchen" conditions, per the show's theme, is what makes Chef Irvine shine. He has had a tremendous success in his career cooking for the royal family, US presidents, special events, etc. D:I is an excellent display of his prowess to "make it work". He and Chef Ramsay are totally different. I don't believe Chef Ramsay cooks for massive crowds, served all at once, buffet style using huge commercial pots and pans. Chef Irvine's cooking is "large scale" while Chef Ramsay is individual servings made to order.


Chef Ramsay has numerous Michelin stars spread across his restaurants. I believe his only failure was the Glasgow, Scotland restaurant that didn't meet the tastes of the clientèle location. His staff are loyal - his restaurants are run by chefs who have worked for Chef Ramsay for years. His trust is in them for one reason alone - they consistently meet his high standards. Call him a callous prig if you must, but don't believe for a second that he does not know his food, restaurants, and staff. Yes, he yells a lot on HK but those cooks don't meet his standards and that is the demand of them in that show. (Plus the drama!)

I'd work for either chef at any moment's notice and learn absolutely everything I could.

(Side note: HK is a British show. Chef Ramsay was the man at the pass during season one. I believe Chef Marco Pierre White is at the helm now. The US version is a cousin to the UK version. As is Kitchen Nightmares.)

[Ishbel]

I ate at Ramsay's Glasgow restaurant. It wasn't a good meal.... probably the only one I've eaten at a Ramsay place that wasn't.

[abefroman]

Originally Posted by Ishbel

I ate at Ramsay's Glasgow restaurant. It wasn't a good meal.... probably the only one I've eaten at a Ramsay place that wasn't.

You should have called him to your table and told him, lol.

[Salliem]

I would work for Chef Ramsay in a heartbeat..as someone said on this thread, the knowledge to be gleaned would be amazing.

[AndyG]

Originally Posted by Salliem

I would work for Chef Ramsay in a heartbeat..as someone said on this thread, the knowledge to be gleaned would be amazing.

There are those who kiss *** and there are those who find their own way. Who is brilliant? An imitator? Find your own way to excel or you are just a would-have-been

[Blueicus]

Originally Posted by AndyG

There are those who kiss *** and there are those who find their own way. Who is brilliant? An imitator? Find your own way to excel or you are just a would-have-been

Perhaps we should go to all the great chefs and home cooks and ask which one of them learned to cook well without watching someone else (i.e. their mothers) cook... I think you'll be surprised at the replies .

[ChefRAZ]

Originally Posted by Ishbel

Just so WE understand one another. No, I'm not saying that because I haven't heard of someone they have to be AUTOMATICALLY an American chef... but it IS an American programme, I assume - and as I haven't heard of the gent, it would be a fair assumption to make in the circs. I have no great 'insight' into the British culinary scene. I have never claimed such. I have, however, unlike yourself, eaten at various Ramsay restaurants. I base my judgement on HIS food (not Mr Irvine's because, as I said, I do not know him).

You thought you could put me down in a PM. I did not 'reveal' what was in that PM here or anywhere else - so gie's a brek.

You are a bully and it appears that you are able to get away with it on this forum.

I really want to get into it here, but I don't have time yet . So I'll save it for later. but I will say this pms(Private Messages ) are suppose to be (private) when you reveal them. It makes your age seem younger. like 5 or 6 years old,talk to you later. ta ta for now.

[Salliem]

Originally Posted by AndyG

There are those who kiss *** and there are those who find their own way. Who is brilliant? An imitator? Find your own way to excel or you are just a would-have-been

Kiss ***? Never have, never will...have been in this business for 29 years, learned the basics from a really good chef and have added my own spin..I am what I want to be. I happen to like Gordon Ramsay, just MY opinion.

[Ishbel]

Originally Posted by ChefRAZ

I really want to get into it here, but I don't have time yet . So I'll save it for later. but I will say this pms(Private Messages ) are suppose to be (private) when you reveal them. It makes your age seem younger. like 5 or 6 years old,talk to you later. ta ta for now.

Errrm, I did not repeat what was said in the PMs. I merely reported that there was a difference of opinion between me and the person I was addressing about how good or not a certain chef was....

I seem younger? 5-6 years old? No, that would be you, judging by this post.

So, I'll go and stand in the naughty corner until you get back to take me to task then....

[bubbamom]

These are two successful chefs who happen to be on TV. How boring and ho-hum their quickly cancelled programs would be without putting some personnality and dramatics into it. Personally, I enjoy both programs, could do without some of the beeped out cussing, and would really like to taste their cooking. And as purely a sexist aside, wouldn't mind cooking with either of them.

[OahuAmateurChef]

Originally Posted by ChefSean

...The OP mentioned Chef Irvine in Kitchen Nightmares. Chef Irvine is not in any episode of that show. In that episode, Chef Ramsay was at an Italian restaurant in Long Island, NY named "Peter's". The big, beefy guy who was yelling and cursing was the manager and brother of the owner of "Peter's". His name is Peter Pelligrino, and I suppose he might look a bit like Chef Irvine on...

Oops! I guess that kinda defeats the purpose of this thread then! Oh well, it's been good conversation anyway.

[smalltruck]

Interesting topic. Anthony Bourdain in his book "A Cooks Tour" talks about Ramsay very highly. IIRC he said Ramsay's attention to detail and the loyalty from his staff was amazing.
George