Panna Cotta ?

[KYHeirloomer]

I'm researching panna cotta for a project and keeping running into references to both a French and a Greek version of this taste treat. Unfortunately, none of the references give names to them.

Anybody got a clue? What I'm looking to find out is what they're called in their respective countries, and how they differ (if they do).

[siduri]

"Panna cotta" is italian for cooked heavy cream. (Cream, in this case, meaning whipping cream, not pastry cream which would be called crema, not panna). It's very simple, made from heavy cream, gelatin, sugar and vanilla. You heat them and then refrigerate. There it is.
Some put it with a berry sauce, and some with chocolate sauce and some with caramelized sugar sauce.
Anyway, if there is a french and greek versions, it would be like saying there is an italian version of ratatouille, or a french version of moussaka. There no doubt is, but if you want to know about them you have to go to the original.
Of course, there are recipes with foreign names that don;t correspond to their country of origin, and the foreign name is given to give a certain "tone" to the recipe - "pasta primavera" that was very popular in the late 70s-early 80s in the states was not at all italian although the name is. But panna cotta is italian.

[Luc_H]

Hi KYH,

I love making the perfect panna cotta. I use a commercial gelatin standardize at 175 bloom and weigh my gelatin precisely. The finish product barely holds in a gel so that when it touches your mouth it melts. My kids describe it as eating clouds...

I have an old French Cuisine cookbook in French (a translation from the cookbook from the Boston Cooking School) dating from 1949 ( a wedding gift to my parents). I refer to it often for authenticity researching.
Since panna cotta means cooked cream. I looked up if there is a recipe for the French translation: Crème cuite. There is only one of many with crème cuite in the title that does not use whole eggs or yolks (which I think is the criteria of the panna cotta).

Crème Cuite Moka (I guess moka meant something else in 1949)

1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup flour
2 cups milk (I guess whole)
1 cup butter
1 tsp vanilla extract

Mix sugar and flour together. Add to milk little by little while stirring. Cook 15 min in a double boiler (bain-marie). Stir constantly until the mixture thickens then after only once and a while. Add butter, mix well, flavour and refrigerate.

other recipes that I know are ancient but use eggs are <pot de beurre> cream custards.

As for the Greek version... maybe someone can supply the translation of cooked cream and search if a recipe exist with that name. As for me, I won't understand because it's all Greek to me.

Luc H.

[ChefRAZ]

Galaktoboureko is greek custard in phyllo dough.
Crème caramel is the french style
this is interesting
http://www.flavor-online.com/2006fal...ng_dessert.pdf

[Blueicus]

But neither resemble Panna Cotta.

[ChefRAZ]

Originally Posted by Blueicus

But neither resemble Panna Cotta.

so wheres your input. thats it? you have nothing else. they are close and thats what "versions" are . a creme caramel is in the same shape so I don't know what you are refering to.
the recipe we make in our shop is simple milk,cream,vanilla bean, gelatin,and sugar. cooled with an ice bath put into ramikins, unmolded or served in, for banquet Gate to Greece: Greek Food: Sweets

[-Cp]

Pannacotta is an Italian dessert made by simmering together cream, milk and sugar, mixing this with gelatin, and letting it cool until set. An Italian phrase which literally means "cooked cream", it generally refers to a creamy, set dessert from the Northern Italian region of Piedmont. It is eaten all over Italy where it is served with wild berries, caramel or chocolate sauce. It is not generally known exactly how or when this dessert came to be, but some theories suggest that cream, for which mountainous Northern Italy is famous, was historically eaten plain or sweetened with fruit or hazelnuts. Earlier recipes for the dish used boiled fish bones in place of gelatin; however, sugar, a main ingredient, would not have been widely available as it was an expensive imported commodity. After years this treat evolved into what is now a gelatin-thickened semi-custard semi-mousse dessert, flavored with vanilla and topped with fruit or spices, and served chilled. Pannacotta, while in the custard family, is the only one that contains no eggs. Similar versions of this dish are also found in Greece and France.

Panna cotta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Blueicus]

Okay, when I say resemble I refer to the use of gelatin and not eggs as the thickening agent, which neither creme caramel nor Galaktoboureko use. Galaktoboureko is even less related than panna cotta since the custard is sandwiched between layers of phyllo, making it superficially resemble a napoleon. Creme caramel has a layer of caramel on the bottom of the ramekin, giving it a brown sheen on top when unmoulded (as you clearly know), which again panna cotta does not have.

If I were to name a "French" item that resembles panna cotta I would say that Bavarian Cream closer resembles panna cotta than creme caramel (since it uses dairy and gelatin in its construction and neither are cooked further after being placed into the serving container/mould... although I guess Bavarian Cream is about as French as Ramen is Japanese). As for the Greek version, I don't have a clue and superficial searches haven't revealed anything so far.

[even stephen]

I've seen panna cotta with a small layer of caramelized sugar on top.
Exactly as you would see with creme caramel or a classic flan......

[KYHeirloomer]

Personally, I don't doubt it for a moment, Stephen. The more research I do, the more I realize how incredibly many variations on this theme there are.

Blueicus is, I would say, correct. Any French, Greek, or other version of panna cotta would have to contain, at a minimum, the following:

Cream
Gelatin
And, if a dessert, sugar.

The whole point of panna cotta is that gelatin, rather than eggs or grains, is the thickening agent.

Blue Zebra suggested, elsewhere, that blanc mange might be a French version. At first I mentally rejected this, because originally rice flour was the thickening agent. But modern versions do, indeed, use gelatin. So she might be on the right track. And blanc mange made with chicken (as was often done in the Middle Ages) would bring it very close to a savory panna cotta.

And, btw, one of the surprising things I'm learning is that there are, indeed, savory panna cottas. One that particularly intriques me, as a possible first course, is Camilla Saulsbury's Gorgonzola Panna Cotta with Red Curret Gastrique and Crispy Prociutto

[MikeLM]

KYH-
That sounds pretty good, but it's an author/cookbook I've never heard of.

Could you give us the recipe?

Thanks,

MIke

[Blueicus]

I was just thinking about the usage of a panna cotta as an intermezzo. The substitution for half the cream for buttermilk and the addition of pureed blanched basil makes for a very refreshing dish, although the aftertaste of dairy may serve to cancel out that effect.

[KYHeirloomer]

The book is called Panna Cotta, Italy's Elegant Custard Made Easy, Mike, and has just been published by Cumberland House.

I'll be doing a review of it, in the not too distant future. Right now I'm waiting for permission from Cumberland to reprint some of the recipes.

According to the frontispiece, though, Camilla Saulsbury has done a number of books about sweets. Listed are:

Cookie Dough Delights
Brownie Mix Bliss
Cake Mix Cookies
No Bake Cookies
Puff Pastry Perfection

She also has an impressive list of magazine credits that includes Southern Living and Better Homes & Gardens, among others.

I was not familiar with her either, though. Which just shows, no matter how well read we are we can't know everyone.

[KYHeirloomer]

Buttermilk is just one of the ingredients with which panna cotta is interpreted, Blueicus. Others include sour cream, yogurt, cream cheese, creme fraiche, and even mascarpone.

The other night I made a peach panna cotta that was about 25% sour cream to 75% cream, and it turned out incredible.

[siduri]

Originally Posted by even stephen

I've seen panna cotta with a small layer of caramelized sugar on top.
Exactly as you would see with creme caramel or a classic flan......

Panna cotta is one of the few deserts you get in italian restaurants, at least here in Rome. They will do it with chocolate sauce, berry sauce and caramel sauce. The caramel, different from creme brulee or creme caramel, is made separately and put on at the last minute (the heat would dissolve the gelatin so it can't be "cooked on" as in the other two.