[shel]

Originally Posted by phatch

Plain food can be excellent.

Yet there are great cuisines with a long history of equally complex recipes and flavors.

Neither is greater than the other.

Yes, the better the ingredients, the better the food CAN be, but that does not guarantee success either.

Phil

No one said otherwise.

[KYHeirloomer]

Siduri,

In the United States, the use of the word "organic" is controlled by federal law. It's a rather complex and costly process to get certified, and most of the true organic growers haven't done so because they, justifiably, do not want to spend the time or the money.

As you may have guessed, the law was, essentially, written by Monsanto and it's kin.

There is nothing in the law, however, determining the genetic type of plant. Certainly it would be near impossible to phrase it so that open pollinated plants were included but hybrids not. And it's in the interest of those who wrote the law to have frankenfoods included.

And the fact is, organic---whether federally mandated or not---refers to how you grow things, not what you grow. However, let's keep in mind that frankenfoods, by their very nature, are crops oriented to chemical growing. That's there very reason for being.

The closest control is that the law requires organically grown seed. But there's a cop-out, as it includes the phrase "when available." Which means that aspect of the law is never enforced.

Nor does anyone understand why it was included. There is virtually no decernable difference between seed produced on an organically grown plant versus that produced on a chemically grown plant.

[AllanMcPherson]

When it comes to taste of food what really drives me mad is the way people have developed a sense of what tastes "right" or "normal." I can't be the only one who has run into people that don't like real hollandaise because it tastes "too lemony." Well, it is a lemon sauce, what did you expect? And, of course, what they expect is Knorr yellow fat sauce, which tastes of fat. And yellow. I guess. So many of our taste expectations have been determined by mass market simulated flavours that the model they where derived from seems alien or "weird." Its like food through the looking glass. The authentic seems unnatural and the simulated seems to be more real.

--Al

[shel]

Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson

When it comes to taste of food what really drives me mad is the way people have developed a sense of what tastes "right" or "normal." I can't be the only one who has run into people that don't like real hollandaise because it tastes "too lemony." Well, it is a lemon sauce, what did you expect? And, of course, what they expect is Knorr yellow fat sauce, which tastes of fat. And yellow. I guess. So many of our taste expectations have been determined by mass market simulated flavours that the model they where derived from seems alien or "weird." Its like food through the looking glass. The authentic seems unnatural and the simulated seems to be more real.

--Al

That's pretty much what Chris Kimball said - almost word for word - and the original point of this thread. What my brother and sister would consider ecceptable, I would feed to the dog (if I had a dog <LOL>).

And fresher often means better tasting and closer to what real food tastes like. The chard I get from the local growers at the Farmer's Market, for example, tastes a whole lot better and more "alive" than the chard at the produce market, natural grocery, or Whole Foods. Peaches from the same grower are often more flavorful than the peaches from the same grower purchased at a local market.

Shel

[AllanMcPherson]

You would be amazed at the mass market foods that my dogs won't eat. Yet that they go crazy for cucumbers. Go figure.

--Al

[shel]

Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson

You would be amazed at the mass market foods that my dogs won't eat. Yet that they go crazy for cucumbers. Go figure.

--Al

My cat won't eat ground turkey that's pre-packaged, only fresh stuff from the poultry store or the organic meat case at one of several natural and organic groceries I frequent. I bought some ground turkey for him (more than once) at Trader Joe's and he wouldn't touch it, but the fresh ground from the local poultry place was devoured in a flash. Comparing the two, I can understand his preference.

Now, what's this got to do with the thread? Well, the poultry store turkey is fresh every day, ground fresh or to order several times a day, has a great feel and texture to it, and smells different.

TJ's ground turkey has "natural flavorings" is more watery, doesn't hold together as well when making patties, and, surprisingly (maybe not) doesn't last as long in the refrigerator as the fresh ground.

I no longer buy TJ's ground turkey.

Shel

[Free Rider]

I was in a supermarket the other day, looking for a non-food item that I thought they may have. I walked through their produce department. As I left with nothing in hand, a "greeter" said to me, "Did you find what you needed?" I replied that I wished her store sold food. She squinted at me and said, "We don't sell food?"

I cooked for my sister and took her to a good restaurant. She was born and raised in the USA and I was not. She had never tasted such food, was her comment.

Recently, I had a run-in with 365 brand pomegranate juice. It's grape juice, I believe. Certainly not pomegranate

I'm so fed up that I'm going to not only make my own bread, ice-cream, etc, but my own juices too. Going to buy a juicer.

The only problem left is the ingredients. My sister, after having my ice-cream, bought an ice-cream maker but lamented how her chocolate ice-cream tasted nothing like mine. She bought a locally-available brand in Kroger (most likely Hershey's). I mail-order Valrhona. Having decent ingredients is difficult in the US. I'm a bit luckier than most because I live on the Mexican border and therefore get a bit more because the local demand matrix is different from the rest of the US.

[Free Rider]

Originally Posted by AllanMcPherson

When it comes to taste of food what really drives me mad is the way people have developed a sense of what tastes "right" or "normal." I can't be the only one who has run into people that don't like real hollandaise because it tastes "too lemony." Well, it is a lemon sauce, what did you expect? And, of course, what they expect is Knorr yellow fat sauce, which tastes of fat. And yellow. I guess. So many of our taste expectations have been determined by mass market simulated flavours that the model they where derived from seems alien or "weird." Its like food through the looking glass. The authentic seems unnatural and the simulated seems to be more real.

--Al

Or the penchant Americans have developed for cake made with anti-freeze.

I agree with you whole-heartedly.

[shroomgirl]

so while this thread has been playing I've been breaking down a pig for a chef's wedding yesterday...pulled as well as sliced pork, homemade BBQ sauce, chutney, homemade rolls....teeny tiny haricot verte that the farmer said were difficult to pick....well they were not easy to stem either but they were delicious on the veg platter with dillweed/garlic/evo, blue/ new and baby sweet potatoes with rosemary, garlic and salt, red and yellow charred peppers,.....farmstead chevre with pesto (local garlic & basil) olives, heirloom tomato platter with fresh buttermilk and vinagrette.....
Cheese platter with lavosh...etc....

I love this thread, and follow the tenets closely.

[AndyG]

When I eat Kentucky Fried Chicken I think about how much stuff is in their system. What I am forcing my stomach to do.

I haven't had any in about 10 years but I do eat Mcdonald's about once a month tho when I don't have time for real food, and I'm starving. Sometimes I don't even get a lunch break in my work.

[shel]

Originally Posted by Free Rider

Recently, I had a run-in with 365 brand pomegranate juice. It's grape juice, I believe. Certainly not pomegranate

I'm so fed up that I'm going to not only make my own bread, ice-cream, etc, but my own juices too. Going to buy a juicer.

Pomegranate and Blueberry Juice Consumer Shopping Guide page 1

"Don't even think about buying juice at the grocery store until you read the next few pages." The article may be a real eye-opener.


Over the years I have made my own juice, and have owned several juicers. Making your own juice is wonderful, healthful, inexpensive compared to any store-bought juice, and you know EXACTLY what's in the glass. There are several books on the subject of juicing and they can be very helpful. Go for it!

Shel

[Luc_H]

Hi Guys,

I agree with everybody that the problem exist, it is complex and the origins of it has to do with our disconnection as a society from our food sources.

Almost all the compliments I get about my cooking can be attributed to the fact I cook everything from scratch. I season/flavour before salting to the point I rarely add salt. I control hidden additives like flavour enhancers, flavours, colours etc.by avoiding pre-made sauces. Most people buy red meat for example based on how it compares to textbook drawings: red & white when they should be looking for purple and yellow.

Little personal example:
Being a self proclaimed gourmet who worked in the food industry, I was always fascinated when people were trying to imitate a flavour like blueberry. When I offered a flavour that was really authentic tasting (very floral) they would refuse it and always went for a sweet, jammy, concord grape like flavour thinking it tasted authentic. The people making process foods live in a fantasy world of what food taste like. Most of them don't even cook. I actually know somebody that is at least 30 and works in Quality control in a spice company that refers to roast beef as brown meat not knowing the original animal. She never bought raw meat or anything fresh and says she goes to her sister's once in a while to eat her brown meat. Everything she buys must be microwaveable.

That is one reason I left the industry.

Luc H

[AndyG]

I am so glad that I grew up with fresh food. I prefer the taste, but also, I learned how to cook, maybe not compared to most of you, but how to make something to my liking. Plenty other people love my cooking too. If all I knew was using mixes, I'd really be missing out.

[canadiangirl]

red & white when they should be looking for purple and yellow.Luc_H

Please show me what that means. I am so sick of buying meat that looks good only to get a grizzly piece of no taste. I do not marinate or over season except for my hubby's meat. He's a meat & potatoes guy but he likes everything marinated & cooked w/ spices. The boys & I love a little salt & little ground pepper. With your background can you explain to me the concept of tastebuds? I know this is a basic ? but I do not have the pallette of a chef & I wish I did. I want to love cheeses, dif. wines. I love seafood but it has to be so fresh(absolutly NO smell) I would say i cannot eat or drink anything that does't smell the way it should-fresh.
Am I a freak or what!!!!!!!

canadiangirl

[shel]

Originally Posted by canadiangirl

I would say i cannot eat or drink anything that does't smell the way it should-fresh.
Am I a freak or what!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know what "fresh" is having never tasted anything truly fresh. Some years ago there was, and still is, a restaurant in my area that served lots of freshly made items using fresh ingredients. They'd squeeze their orange juice to order, and you could watch them doing it. Today their fresh orange juice comes from plastic one gallon jugs. It's still real OJ, but they have contracted with an outside company to supply it. By the time the juice reaches the consumer at the restaurant it's at least a day old. It's still described as fresh squeezed on the menu, and it may have been, but it's no longer fresh when the customer drinks it. The difference between it and truly fresh squeezed OJ is substantial.

Shel