Need proof of cooking temperatures....

[Sherry Newton]

In a conversation the other day, my GM said, "There is only a tempurature taken on beef." I replied, "Not true. Everything has a temperature, (beef, pork, fish) except poultry, which is always well done." He of course will not believe this is so, apparently. So, I was wondering if anyone knows where it would be written down, so I could show him and myself instead of just words. I was verbally told this by my instructor, many years ago. Any input would be welcomed on this matter. Thanks, Sherry

[sucrechef]

The ServeSafe book will have time / temperature charts for all the different proteins

[Jim]

I lifted the following from the Minnesota Dept. Of Health's site, but there are many, many guides (including the ServSafe model) that list temperatures. There is much subjectivity, so use this as a guide only:
Eggs Cook until yolk and white are firm
Egg dishes 160
Fresh beef
rare 140
medium 160
well done 170
ground beef 160
Fresh veal 170
Fresh lamb
medium 170
well done 180
Fresh pork
medium 160
well done 170
Poultry
chicken 180
turkey 180
Boneless turkey roasts 170
Stuffing (inside or outside the bird) 165
Cured pork
ham – raw 160
ham – fully cooked 140
shoulder 160
Game
deer 160-170
rabbit 180
duck 180
goose 180

[Sherry Newton]

Thank you both, SucreChef and Chef Jim. These are extremely helpful to me and all at my work. I also found that SafSure website through Jayme, thanks to her, too. Greatly appreciated, Sherry

[Pete]

Jim do you really trust those numbers? MR beef at 140? Med beef at 160? Med lamb at 170? Chicken at 180?

[abefroman]

Originally Posted by Pete

Jim do you really trust those numbers? MR beef at 140? Med beef at 160? Med lamb at 170? Chicken at 180?

They added 10-15deg to everything for liability purposes, lol.

[Pete]

So since they added 10-15 degrees then we, as chefs, should change our perceptions of what constitutes MR, Med., etc.?

[kuan]

Originally Posted by Pete

So since they added 10-15 degrees then we, as chefs, should change our perceptions of what constitutes MR, Med., etc.?

They're the department of health, not the Culinary Institute of America. I'd say we have more authority.

[DC Sunshine]

Sherry,
I think you have an answer to your question. Its not only beef that has a cooked internal temperature where it comes to proteins- why should it be the only one?!?!? What would happen if you cooked chicken to an internal temp of only say 70? Not a happy thought.

Maybe your GM meant that he only bothers to take the internal temp on beef, as people are very fussy on how done their beef is, and expects the rest of the meats to all be well done. Slightly old fashioned attitude that, if that's the case, as lamb is lovely when underdone, especially cuts like rack of lamb or loin (most lamb in fact), and pork can be awful sometimes when well done.

[Sherry Newton]

DC Sunshine, I agree with you all and know from my personal experience. Some people like my GM you just can't talk to on a professional level, if they chose not to have an intelligent conversation on a topic with you. Unfortunately, some people tend to categorize people without doing research or ever really bothering with them. They just say their opinion and off they go. I appreciate all of your input and help in finding the written proof. I am still working on how to deal with people like him though....LOL!!!

[kuan]

Sherry, doesn't the law require the supervisor to be servsafe certified or similiar? The Servsafe handbook should have all of those charts.

[Jim]

Pete... they aren't the numbers I would necessarily use for degrees of doneness in my kitchen. I reposted that list from a site purely for the sake of ensuring that Sherry was able to illustrate to her GM that there is much more of a range of cooking meat than just red meat, alone. I knew you (or Kuan... or Greg or Brad) would smack me around a bit


P.S. I think chicken at 180 would be closer to the 'Jerky' stage than most people would care for

[Sherry Newton]

I love you guys and your sense of humor on the side, it's great!!!
Kuan, I am not sure, since it is a Privately owned Golf Club. I will have to check into that. I am pretty sure though, as I am told, Private Clubs have their "Own Rules," if you catch my drift. But the ServSafe info. and the tempurature chart info. was past on to him....what he does with it is in his hands. At least, I know the proper info. was confirmed and I passed it on with everyone's your help.
Jim....I hear you on the "Chicken Wars."As long as I can remember, this has been going on. I always serve mine Well done, no pink, but not overcooked.
It's real nice to have a great response to a question. Thank you all. Have a Blessed Day, Sherry

[abefroman]

Why does veal need to be hotter than beef? Is there a bacteria present in cows when they are little that goes away when they are big?

[Marzoli]

Originally Posted by Sherry Newton

Some people . . . you just can't talk to on a professional level, if they chose not to have an intelligent conversation on a topic with you. Unfortunately, some people tend to categorize people without doing research or ever really bothering with them. They just say their opinion and off they go.

This is true in the education world too. You are not alone! These people write strange things in evaluations that stay in your file for ages--they never bother to find out if their opinions have any truth to them.