Milk to curds ratio

[gabenevins]

Hello, new to the forum. Was wondering what the Milk/Cheese ratio is.
In other words, what specific amount of milk yields what amount of curd?
Gabe

[Anneke]

Depends on the starter culture, the ripening time, the salt, the rennet concentration. Generally speaking, if you're looking to make cheddar, you need 10-11 times the amount of milk. About 17X for a harder cheese like Parmigiano. Interesting question. Why do you ask?

[gabenevins]

Aneke, Well, I'm glad you asked..... I am indeed about to make cheddar as you so intuitively surmised. But I had a vision of making a biggish, waxed, wheel of it. Naively ambitious for a rookie who's already failed three times, no doubt, but I refuse to give up the dream. I have even made my own semi-industrial, sized cheese press (it's cool). I just dumped 3 gallons of milk into a pot. I've got vegetable Rennett tablets and Mesophilic starter. I'm concerned that I won't have enough to work with after I drain off the whey. Thanks for the reply, Gabe

[Anneke]

You'll probably have a great deal of difficulty with vegetable rennet. What kind is it? from fungus? from cardoon thistle? Animal rennet works best for most cheeses, especially those designed for aging. Beware of wax. I think what you're going for is a bandaged cheddar. THese are protected with lard and cloth. Difficult to get the right ripening conditions though...

You might want to pick up Home CHeesemaking by Rcki Carrol if you wish to pursue this. Considering how much milk you'll need, it's a good idea to get all the advice you can get.

One of our members Luc also made cheddar; hopefully he'll chime in. Good luck!!

[gabenevins]

Anneke, you're killing my dream with that harsh dose of reality. While I will take your advice regarding the Rennett. I refuse, however, to give up on the four gallons of milk gently, creamily, simmering , lusciously on the stove. Through sheer force of will, it will become a round of WAXED, cheese. What do you think will happen? How deluded am I? Gabe
P.S. The Rennett is Microbial Coagulant (M. Miehi and/or M. Pussillus),salt, corn starch, Magnesium Stearate, Cellulose Microcristaline.

[Anneke]

Don't let ME kill your dreams!!!! Cheesemakers become artisans because nothing gets between them and the perfect drum of cheddar! Besides, I never actually made cheese so you're way ahead of me...

Most cheeses sold in wax today are not ripened in wax, as mold will likely develop. They dip them just before they go to market. Don't ask me why the 640 lbs cheddar blocks that are aged in plastic don't mold....

[gabenevins]

Anneke, Drats! you were right. I should have listened to you. My curds turned into liquid mush. But I'm still not giving up. I've got the mush in the refrig in a cheese cloth in a large colander. Hopefully when I get back home it will harden and I will be able to cheddar it. Thanks for the help though. Despite my wife's protestations, I will live to cheddar again! Gabe

[Luc_H]

Hi Gabenevins (and Anneke),

I am chiming in this post.
My experiments have uncovered that when it comes to cheese making at home, the right ingredients, precision and attention to details makes the difference.

Before commenting or even orienting you in any direction, I need to know the following:
what type of milk are you using? fat content? homogenized? store bought milk?
when heating the milk before coagulation how do you do it? directly on the stovetop?

Also instead of using pure mesophilic culture to inoculate the milk, I found out that using freshly cultured buttermilk works better (more gentle, more control). Do you know how to make buttermilk with the mesophilic culture? My ratio is 1/2 cup of buttermilk to inoculate 4L of milk (let's say 1 gal).

By the way, I have experience only with calf rennet. My research pointed out that calf rennet is easier to use from home cheese making. So whatever I will advise will be based on this fact.

Hope to (hear) read from you now.
Luc H

[gabenevins]

Luc H, Thanks for "chiming in". Geez, you've sure given me a lot to think about. First off, the details; Store bought whole milk, Mesophilic starter, vegetable rennet (I just ordered liquid animal-based rennet), heated in a four gallon pot on an electric stove. I think you're right and I would like to pursue the buttermilk idea. What's the process? I also found that I need to retool my home-made press, it turns out it only looked cool. I might also order the calf-rennet. Gabe

[Luc_H]

Hi Gabenevins,

Sorry I was quite busy for a week (spring break).

I must tell you that making cheese is not as simple as having the ingredients and mixing everything together. There are critical factors to control like temperature, time and the right ingredient.

The type of milk is very important. Milk for cheese makers is not homogenized and is usually pasteurized at a lower temperature then supermarket milk. If you use supermarket milk, you start with a huge disadvantage when making cheese. The processing involved disturbs the fat globules and the protein structure of milk which prevents a good gel when rennet is added which is required for a firm yet smooth curd for making cheese.

If you are very serious, you should read up on the subject. Buy a book or two or go to the library. Think of making small scale trials (1 gal) instead because you will waste a lot of milk during your learning curve.

My milk combination that works is 4 liters of skim milk + 500 ml of 35% cream. Cream, even homogenized, has large fat globules. Skim milk, not having any fat, has unfatty proteins.

To date , my resources have been these two websites. You will learn a lot here (including how to make buttermilk starter):
Fankhauser's Cheese Page
(he uses goat's milk but the technique also applies to cow's milk)

Cheese Making
He uses a blend of powdered milk and cream but I never tried it.

Good luck,

Luc H.

[melis]

Originally Posted by Anneke

You'll probably have a great deal of difficulty with vegetable rennet. What kind is it? from fungus? from cardoon thistle? Animal rennet works best for most cheeses, especially those designed for aging. Beware of wax. I think what you're going for is a bandaged cheddar. THese are protected with lard and cloth. Difficult to get the right ripening conditions though...

You might want to pick up Home CHeesemaking by Rcki Carrol if you wish to pursue this. Considering how much milk you'll need, it's a good idea to get all the advice you can get.

One of our members Luc also made cheddar; hopefully he'll chime in. Good luck!!

I'm picking up this old thread b/c cheesemaking is near and dear to my heart. This reccomendation of Ricki Carrol is a great one! I went to her beginners class on home cheesemaking and am currently trying to master the fresh cheeses. I'm having the hardest time with Mozarella, which is supposed to be the easiest-yea right! She also has a hard cheese class and has customized classes for soft aged cheeses, blues, and other very advanced cheeses for the aspiring artisan.

The trip to New England for cheese is totally worth it, there were people from all over the country who attend.

Cheddar is very advanced and it really is an artform to try to master the hard cheeses and soft ripened cheeses, but well worth the effort in satisfaction.

[Luc_H]

I wonder if Gabevins has attempted to make cheese still...

Luc H.

[Anneke]

Good to hear from you Melis! Mozzarella is indeed very diffictult to master, particularly if you don't have a ph-meter. ANother great source is American Farmstead Cheeses by Kinstedt. It's a bit technical, but after reading him, you'll know exactly where you went wrong.

What fresh cheeses are you working on?

[gabenevins]

I completed my fifth batch. Failures all. My wife is catatonic over the amount of milk I used (it seems milk has gotten a little more expensive lately). Mind you the dream is still alive, I just have to wait until the warden isn't looking. Gabe

[jbd]

Gabe,

What other cheeses have you made besides cheddar?