Creamier Vinaigrette

[abefroman]

Originally Posted by Blueicus

What about xanthan gum?

I second xanthan gum, thats how ranch is thickened.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by CakesBySarah

[...]Emulsifiers...present in many vinegarettes, correct? [...]If the only "true" vinegarette in the world consisted of red wine vinegar, olive oil or vegetable oil, and salt and pepper, it would truly be a boring place.

Actually, ab definito, tradition and practice, not to mention Escoffier and Pellaprat, a sauce vinaigrette is invariably olive oil and wine vinegar, combined 3:1 with the addition of salt and pepper; and may contain mustard, herbs, olives, capers, anchovies, etc.

To my mind, though, without an emulsifier (and I prefer mustard), it's not sauce vinaigrette, but oil and vinegar.

The method would still be the same, with the oil/vinegar/flavoring ingredients in the same proportions, so in my mind, I don't believe I've violated any sacred laws of Frenchness throwing out an idea for a variation.

Yes. Yes. Mais biensur, madame. Oui. C'est vrais. And, ooh la la. The power of French technique is that it is so adaptable to a variety of ingredients and cuisines. The breadth of French cuisine, like all great Imperial cuisines, comes from it's inclusion of and inspiration by an infinite number of sources and resources.

My 2 Euros,
BDL

[shel]

I tend to agree with Steve in that, for me, a vinaigrette is a very simple concoction: oil, vinegar, some salt, maybe some pepper, and perhaps some garlic (infused and strained out), and perhaps some mustard. The idea of using flour, eggs, mayonnaise, xanthan gum, and what-all-else just seems out of place in a vinaigrette, and may certainly change the flavor and texture of the mixture. I'm just an old fart and a traditionalist. Flour and xanthan gum! Sheesh!

scb

[OregonYeti]

But you yourself said lemon juice

Originally Posted by shel

I'd sometimes like my vinaigrette to be thicker and creamier. I usually use a 2:1 or 3:1 or so ratio of oil to acid (vinegar or lemon juice), add some Dijon mustard to taste (often about 1 - 2 tsp depending on volume), and the result, while not watery, is not as creamy as I'd cometimes like. Any suggestions on how to make the dressing thicker and creamier?

scb

[Blueicus]

If we used lemon juice in place of vinegar, shouldn't we call it a "citronette"?

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by shel

I tend to agree with Steve in that, for me, a vinaigrette is a very simple concoction: oil, vinegar, some salt, maybe some pepper, and perhaps some garlic (infused and strained out), and perhaps some mustard. The idea of using flour, eggs, mayonnaise, xanthan gum, and what-all-else just seems out of place in a vinaigrette, and may certainly change the flavor and texture of the mixture. I'm just an old fart and a traditionalist. Flour and xanthan gum! Sheesh!

scb

Well, there you go. Garlic isn't really part of a classic (Escoffier) vinaigrette. According to Pellaprat who actually knew August Escoffier, it's a southern (Midi-Provencal) regional thing. (I can't remember what Augie said himself, and it appears that a certain daughter made off with my copy of Guide Culinaire when she was down here for spring break.) Besides, I think we have you on record as using balsamic vinegar, when only regular wine vinegar is old fart certified.

Also and FWIW, sesame flour isn't really flour, any more than mustard powder a.k.a. mustard flour is. It's just pulverized sesame without any oil.

Agree on xanthan, guar, locust, etc. They may hold things together but they also make them slimy. Besides, I'm not looking for my vinaigrette to hold together longer than it takes to make and eat a salad. Shelf life is not my middle name.

BDL

[kuan]

Originally Posted by Blueicus

If we used lemon juice in place of vinegar, shouldn't we call it a "citronette"?

Funny!

[Bazza]

Much debate on this thread has led me to look at my copy of Larousse Gastronomique. In respect to the copyright rules on this site I have slightly changed the wording.

Vinaigrette (check spelling)

A cold sauce or dressing made from vinegar, oil, pepper and salt, to which various flavourings may be added: shallot, onion, herbs, capers, garlic, gherkins, anchovies, hard boiled egg or mustard.

The choice of oil (olive, sunflower walnut and so on) and vinegar is made according to the salad: The vinegar may be replaced by lemon juice or is sometimes flavoured with it. Vinaigrette is also used to dress cold dishes: vegetables, meat and fish in a court bouillon.

It is considered to be a typically French sauce and is often called "French Dressing" in Britain. Chevalier d'Albignac started the fashion in London high society for salads dressed in this way.

So there you have it

I would say that only way to alter the consistency is through blending or mixing, and adding thickening agents would be corrupting the true definition of vinaigrette.

[oldschool1982]

Originally Posted by shel

...... for me, a vinaigrette is a very simple concoction..... and what-all-else just seems out of place in a vinaigrette, and may certainly change the flavor and texture of the mixture. I'm just an old fart and a traditionalist...scb

Then why try and make it something it isn't (ie;thicker and creamier) in the first place????? It is what it is.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by oldschool1982

Then why try and make it something it isn't (ie;thicker and creamier) in the first place????? It is what it is.

Because he wasn't getting actual vinaigrette texture -- his was too watery. This probably resulted from trying to get her preferred taste balance using milder vinegars, and ended in a cockamamie 2:1 ratio. FWIW, highlighting the vinegar is the most common mistakes for home cooks using best ingredients; and, although I hate to make gender distinctions, women in general -- probably as reflexive fat cutting.

IMO, we can relax a bit on our terms too.

Is a Caesar dressing a vinaigrette? At bottom, I think it is. It also shows what using emulsifiers like anchovies, mustard, egg and cheese can do to make a really thick, creamy emulsion. Which brings us back to ultra-traditional vinaigrettes -- which may incorporate anchovies and mustard as emulsifiers.

And what's wrong with that?
BDL

[shel]

Shel is not a she. Shel doesn't care too much about calories in vinaigrette-type salad dressing.

A true (the original) Caesar dressing doesn't use anchovies.

shel (XY Chromosome)

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Because she wasn't getting actual vinaigrette texture -- hers was too watery. This probably resulted from trying to get her preferred taste balance using milder vinegars, and ended in a cockamamie 2:1 ratio. FWIW, highlighting the vinegar is the most common mistakes for home cooks using best ingredients; and, although I hate to make gender distinctions, women in general -- probably as reflexive fat cutting.

[...]

Is a Caesar dressing a vinaigrette? At bottom, I think it is. It also shows what using emulsifiers like anchovies, mustard, egg and cheese can do to make a really thick, creamy emulsion. BDL

[chefinfrance]

Just a little French lesson for you non believers, vin means wine, aigre means sour. so sauce vinaigrette is a classic french dressing using sour wine or vinegar. The word you should be using is salad dressing, you can then add whatever you want and be has creative as you want, so if you want to blend squid ink with yaks milk then fine but please do not call it vinaigrette.
steve www.masterchefinfrance.com
call me anything you want but dont call me late for dinner.

[phatch]

English and most other languages are filled with words from other languages that no longer have the narrow meaning they originally had.

And the problem with just calling something just "salad dressing" in American english is that it most often means a mayonnaise substitute like Miracle Whip. Which is creamy already though a product not to my liking.

[boar_d_laze]

If "true" Caesar salad dressing was actually invented by Caesar Cardini, then a true Caesar salad dressing would not contain anchovies, mashed or otherwise. However, it wasn't and it does. And even if it was and it didn't, it's a much poorer salad without those little fishies.

Sorry about the gender confusion, bro. Will edit.

BDL

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by chefinfrance

Just a little French lesson for you non believers, vin means wine, aigre means sour. so sauce vinaigrette is a classic french dressing using sour wine or vinegar. The word you should be using is salad dressing, you can then add whatever you want and be has creative as you want, so if you want to blend squid ink with yaks milk then fine but please do not call it vinaigrette.
steve www.masterchefinfrance.com
call me anything you want but dont call me late for dinner.

Even Pellaprat, who was one of the founders and principal instructors of Ecole Cordon Bleu, and Escoffier allowed more freedom than you do, Steve. There is discipline, yes; but there's freedom to be had with it. In fact, each is meaningless without the other. Non? I'm so confused.

Not exactly a manicheaist,
BDL