Creamier Vinaigrette

[OregonYeti]

I can't attempt to be intelligent with pros, but, at what point do you give something another name? You can know for yourself that it's not the purest original thing Moses or Abraham or Buddha or Escoffier had in mind.

Just call it pagan vinaigrette and it will be popular Kidding, of course, but while I will try to make sure to give credit where credit is due, imagine if Singapore had staunch rules on the Chinese, Malaysian and Indian (and other?) cuisines . . . we might not have Singaporean food that we have now. For me it's one thing to recognize the roots, and that's a great thing, but to be too restrictive on nomenclature might take some fun out of it. "Tofu and noodle stuff that's kind of curry flavored" or "Hartono's Indonesian Stuff with fried chicken" or "John's interpretation of kimchi" can be cumbersome. "Chang's fried rice" might be a safe name.

I asked for a beating here, but I hope I made some point. To know the original preparation is great, and maybe essential for pros. I also think that there's no harm done making your own twist on a classic, and using a similar name, like "raspberry vinaigrette".

[shel]

Everything I've read, over many years, indicates that Cardini was the creator of the Caesar salad. I've never come across anything to the contrary. However, I'm not wedded to the story. What other hustory is there.

I was just yankin' your chain a little about my gender, although, speaking for myself, I like to know who I'm corresponding with.

shel

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

If "true" Caesar salad dressing was actually invented by Caesar Cardini, then a true Caesar salad dressing would not contain anchovies, mashed or otherwise. However, it wasn't and it does. And even if it was and it didn't, it's a much poorer salad without those little fishies.

Sorry about the gender confusion, bro. Will edit.

BDL

[Bazza]

OY, where you have a style of cooking (French) that has been highly respected for a very long time and then a very highly respected French chef comes along and records these methods this sets a format for others to follow. I dont know of any other style of cooking that has been recorded in this way. Escoffier was your man, he was reponsible for updating French cooking methods, organising and categorising them. He was not only a brilliant chef, he was also a talented writer.

There is nothing wrong with variations, or changing things, this is how most recipes are founded, but, if you do change something that has been categorised and officially named then I suppose you should then call it something different.

[OregonYeti]

Point well made, Bazza. If somebody calls it "balsamic vinaigrette", that's enough explanation on the variation, no?

[chefinfrance]

Please dont take this the wrong way but as balsamic is a vinegar of course it can be used in a vinaigrette thats my point,truffle vinegar ,cider vinegar,red wine white wine vinegar,tarragon vinegar etc etc.
Its not that I dont agree with experimenting with ingrediants but if I replace the butter for sesame oil when making hollandaise how can I still call it hollandaise. another example if you choose to put a skoda engine into a Dodge Viper is it still a Dodge Viper.
Steve www.masterchefinfrance.com

[Bazza]

Can I just say how much I like this site. I would never have thought that "vinaigrette" could spark such an informed and lively debate (not to mention the unexpected exposure of Shel's gender ) The posts on this and other threads are a real measure of the passion and enthusiasm that forum members have for their craft.

[oldschool1982]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Because he wasn't getting actual vinaigrette texture -- his was too watery. This probably resulted from trying to get her preferred taste balance using milder vinegars, and ended in a cockamamie 2:1 ratio. FWIW, highlighting the vinegar is the most common mistakes for home cooks using best ingredients; and, although I hate to make gender distinctions, women in general -- probably as reflexive fat cutting.

IMO, we can relax a bit on our terms too.

Is a Caesar dressing a vinaigrette? At bottom, I think it is. It also shows what using emulsifiers like anchovies, mustard, egg and cheese can do to make a really thick, creamy emulsion. Which brings us back to ultra-traditional vinaigrettes -- which may incorporate anchovies and mustard as emulsifiers.

And what's wrong with that?
BDL

BDL,

Maybe once in my career/life I would have considered it but now.....for many reasons (to many to list) I will not nor am I trying to go "toe to toe" with you (or anyone else) regarding the definition, preparation or execution of a vinaigrette.... traditional or enhanced. Nor would I even challenge the definition of a Caesar Dressing. Although IMHO it would appear to fall more under the spirit of the Mother sauce definition since Mayonnaise (egg/oil emulsion) would be the base. Yet, like you mentioned about a vinaigrette earlier...." Shelf life is not my middle name". BTW that had me rolling!!!!!

I just found it odd to state being a traditionalist and then not actually making a vinaigrette in the first place. Especially since the only reason the proper consistency was not achieved was due to the ratio of oil to vinegar.

Heck I make these things all the time and to me it's just great in it's simplest form or as a vessel for other flavors. FWIW and unless it was the policy of the operation to do otherwise, I always tred to do my vinaigrettes on a shift basis. Although, there was a time when I was forced to devise another means to keep it more stable or what some could and would call "idiot-proofing" but I was never content with them. Then again I also had bills to pay.

As I've progressed I have come to believe the only way they should be made is using the proper ratios of base ingredients in small batches, by hand with a balloon whip................... and the rest is all up to taste.

[shel]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

[...] ALSO, your vinegar-oil ratio is extremely vinegary -- and vinegar is mostly water. The normal ratio range for vinaigrette is 3 - 5 oil to one vinegar. I understand that some people make dressings with 2 parts mild vinegar and 1 part fruity olive oil to get a flavor balance -- but that's not really a vinaigrette.

In another thread (Dijon Vinaigrette) you said, "1) Note the approximate two to one ratio of oil to vinegar. This is standard vinaigrette stuff, although ratios can be adjusted somewhat to compensate for acidity and taste."

Something else to think about is using dry mustard powder to facilitate the emulsion rather than Dijon.

Dry mustard seems to work pretty well, although I'm not crazy about the taste of the Coleman's that I've been using. Any sugestions for alternative dry mustard?

shel

[LollaRossa]

In answer to the OP without entering the derail debate.

I have used egg whites successfully in professional applications for years.

[yorvo]

I make a Christmas Salad with a raspberry vinaigrette. I rehydrate dried cranberries, puree, and whisk them in with the dressing. Gives it just a little heft.

[LollaRossa]

Originally Posted by yorvo

I make a Christmas Salad with a raspberry vinaigrette. I rehydrate dried cranberries, puree, and whisk them in with the dressing. Gives it just a little heft.

the natural pectin in the cranberries helping out there.

[Luc_H]

Hi Shel,
I will not go into the vinaigrette wording debate but will answer the initial question.

To make an water in oil or W/O emulsion, there is basically 5 ways to make it thicker:
1. dissolve solids in the water phase (like sugar) make it denser then emulsify the mixture
2. use an oil/fat that will solidify when cooled (increasing fat viscosity). Emulsify warm then cool.
3. increase the viscosity of the water (adding a hydrocolloid i.e. xanthan gum or starch). Emulsify.
4. Emulsify the heck out of the mixture to obtain a very small water droplet particle size in the emulsion. Emulsifiers like the lecithin in egg yolks and mustard will help do that.
5. An optimal combination of all of the above

In this light, it explains why Mi_ra_cle W_hi_p has all of the ingredients mentioned above in optimum levels.
WATER, SOYBEAN OIL, VINEGAR, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, MODIFIED FOOD STARCH, SUGAR, SALT, ENZYME MODIFIED EGG YOLKS, MUSTARD FLOUR, ARTIFICIAL COLOR, POTASSIUM SORBATE AS A PRESERVATIVE, PAPRIKA, SPICE, NATURAL FLAVOR, DRIED GARLIC, BETA CAROTENE (COLOR). CONTAINS: EGG.

Luc H.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by shel

Dry mustard seems to work pretty well, although I'm not crazy about the taste of the Coleman's that I've been using. Any sugestions for alternative dry mustard?

Buy some black mustard seeds from an Indian market, toast them and make your own. Also, Asian markets sometimes carry a selection of mustard powder/flour.

BDL

[shel]

Utilizing some of the techniques and suggestions posted in this thread, I made a vinaigrette this evening at a friend's house. It was the best I've made ,,,, thanks for everyone's help.

scb