[Fishmonger Ran]

I am simply trying to stir the pot here.
When it comes to fish, which do you prefer? How do you explain the differences to your customers? Do you really feel that there are safety issue with farmed fish or shellfish vs wild? I would be most interested in what your customers are saying. Are they well educated about the latest farming techniques? Are they simply educated by the first paragraph or two of a mass media article? Or do they simply not care as long as it taste good? Furthermore, I think the question that I would like to see the most answers for is this: What, if any, affects will any kind of seafood certification (ie.. MSC or Organic) have in your home or in the food service industry?
Believe me, I am not advocating fish farming in way, shape or form. I do believe strongly in sustainable harvest. I also know that we here in the U.S. import over 80% of our seafood, and that number is getting larger every year. Our appetite for seafood in the U.S. is growing substantially and there is an overwhelming amount of information out there about how to fill that appetite.
Let's hear it. I am sure that most of us have a story or two and an opinion to go along with them.

[KYHeirloomer]

While there are certainly environmental issues surrounding the whole fish-farming industry, the fact is most people cannot tell the difference in a blind taste test.

Not surprising. There are more entries in the myth-vs-reality category with seafood than with any other food type.

Case in point: I just ran into someboy who insisted that FAS tastes distictly different than fresh, and she would only eat fresh. Considering that we're 700 miles from the nearest ocean, I wonder who she thinks she's kidding---besides herself.

[OahuAmateurChef]

As an ignorant customer, I would much, much rather consume wild-caught fish over farm raised.

They surely must be healthier!

I can't quote any particular study that emphasizes the benefits, but then a study is only as good as its funder.

How would God prefer we eat them?

[chubyalaskagriz]

and provide an excellent source for our tables- catfish, for instance, In fact, the tame taste of farmed far surpasses that of wild- to my taste.

But as an Alaskan I will refrain from commenting on farmed salmon as I have extremely biased & outspoken opinions.

(okay- I will offer one tiny smidgen of opinion... farmed salmon is to wild salmon as VELVEETA is to Tillamook Cheddar!)

[shel]

Originally Posted by chubyalaskagriz

(okay- I will offer one tiny smidgen of opinion... farmed salmon is to wild salmon as VELVEETA is to Tillamook Cheddar!)

And Tillamook is pretty low on the cheddar totem pole.

One of the things that surprised me when I was in Alaska was the number of restaurants that served melted cheese on their otherwise wonderful halibut and salmon.

I agree with you that farmed salmon in no way compares with wild Pacific salmon from the northwest, especially Alaskan salmon. I love the Copper River fish, but most any will make my mouth water.

scb

[Blueicus]

I'm going to say this much, if everybody decided to switched to eating wild fish then we'd probably be doing more damage to the ocean's stocks than we already are. Unless the population of the affluent world suddenly dropped by half and we decided to all become vegetarians (a problem unto itself) we're going to have to find safe, sustainable fish farming methods that yield a good product.

The ancient Sumerians practiced irresponsible and unsustainable irrigation practices four thousand years ago, which resulted in a vast salination of parts of the Fertile Crescent leading to famine... Modern technology has solved some of those problems but created new ones.

Of course, there's always soylent green.

[chubyalaskagriz]

Only one fish/cheese dish up this way that I know of... a wonderful Pacific-Northwest recipe called Halibut Olympia that can be found on every menu in Alaska (it prolly ties with beer-battered hali as the total FAV!). Ya place a raw fillet atop uncooked bacon & caremelized onions in a baking dish, throw it in a hot oven & forget about it for a bit. Meanwhile mix mayo, sour cream, shredded cheddar and a dash of nutmeg together. Remove the hali from the oven when it's about 3/4 cooked and spread the mayo/cheddar mixture atop. Return to oven and finsih until golden-bubbly. A great method to try for folks who think they don't like seafood... ain't a meat-eater anywhere that don't enjoy this recipe!

[shel]

Originally Posted by chubyalaskagriz

Only one fish/cheese dish up this way that I know of... a wonderful Pacific-Northwest recipe called Halibut Olympia ...

Come to think of it, I only had halibut served with cheese, but that may have been because once I had it I always made sure to tell the server that I didn't want cheese on my fish.

I did not have anything as "grandiose" has Halibut Olympia, just melted cheese on the fish. This was served to me in Haines, and offered in Wasilla, Anchorage, Esther, and at least one other town.

shel

[Fishmonger Ran]

Originally Posted by KYHeirloomer

While there are certainly environmental issues surrounding the whole fish-farming industry, the fact is most people cannot tell the difference in a blind taste test.

This is more true than most people would like to believe. Several times a year (around this time when Copper River is running and Wild salmon are starting their season) I do a blind taste test for my customers. I will use King (Chinook) salmon. I cook them all at the same time, using the same the seasonings (olive oil and dill), then I place the samples on a sample tray and ask my customers to tell me the difference. I have not worked out the actual percentage or ratio, but the margin is huge for those who simply cannot tell a difference between the three. Those are what I call "Average" customers. Not "Foodies." The "Foodies" can tell just by looking at the choices which is farmed and which is not. It is a very rare occasion when they can tell the difference between the Fresh Troll King and the Fresh Copper River King, even by taste. I live and work here in the Northwest where the salmon is King, and EVERYONE has an opinion.

Thanks for the posts folks.

[boar_d_laze]

Depends on species.

BDL

[Fishmonger Ran]

BDL - Are you not well? I think that is the shortest post I have read from you since I joined this forum. lol! I was really looking forward to your experienced mind and eloquent teaching.

[OregonYeti]

Originally Posted by shel

And Tillamook is pretty low on the cheddar totem pole.

scb

Oh come on Shel, Tillamook got best rating of big cheese producers. What totem pole are you visiting? Nobody said Tillamook was absolute best there is but hey best in class? Let's see you do that. Is your totem pole a shrub in back of your house?

Give credit where credit is due.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by Fishmonger Ran

BDL - Are you not well? I think that is the shortest post I have read from you since I joined this forum. lol!

The reality is that most types of seafood which are successfully farm raised have driven wild off the market. Salmon and shrimp are two which have not, as yet and there are others. Usually, if wild is available I'll choose that over farmed. But I also choose "sustainable" over "the Japanese are going to wipe it out in four years," always. A lot of the choice is made by the fish monger, too. As you're well aware. I can only buy what's available, and from that only that which catches my interest as well as meets my standards.

By example:
Catfish -- Can you get that wild?
Oysters -- Farmed usually
Salmon -- Wild, or don't bother.
Shrimp -- Live over "fresh" before wild over farmed
Tilapia -- Can you get that wild?
Trout -- Ditto
And so on.


We had some difficulty finding a good fish market on this side of megalopolis, until we started shopping in Asian markets. We currently go to "Vien Dong," aka "Food Super Warehouse" for fish. They have the largest selection of live fish, and one of the largest of live shell fish I've seen in a store. They have an excellent selection of whole fish on ice in front of the counter you can handle before you buy, and a wide selection of cleaned and processed or partially processed fish in the counter. Plus, a huge selection of vacuum packed and frozen seafood. The super-market itself isn't dirty by Asian standards, but it isn't particularly clean by American. Yet, with all the fish displayed in front of the counter the place does not smell like fish. Not at all. The selection is tied for freshest I've seen in any large fish market in Los Angeles with Santa Monica Fish Market. The selection is much wider -- if sometimes lacking in western favorites.

The prices are unbelievably good. Live Atlantic lobster is $9.99/lb. Yellowtail seems to be on perpetual sale at $3.99. Wild salmon is $4/lb less than anywhere else. They charge 20 cents a pound to fillet, but the butchering isn't very good. I'm buying wholes, sides or quarters more often than I used to and filleting or steaking myself. It's not that they lack the skills -- they just go too fast and are backstopped by clientèle that doesn't mind hunting down the bones. A lot of the packaged is too exotic for my wife -- who's not much of a fish eater. So, we're going slow on that, but it's fun.

Happy now?
BDL

[les poissioner]

I used to be a solid believer in the benefits and superior quality of wild seafood. Now I am starting to see the light. The future of seafood depends on increased production of farmed seafood to meet the growing demands of consumers both here and worldwide. So while promoting farmed seafood we must try to insure that the fish is raised in a sustainable way, does no harm to the environment, and is a superior product. By the way it has been my experience that those aquaculturists that meet the first two requirements are very successful in making the end product taste great.

[mydogcisco]

Originally Posted by les poissioner

I used to be a solid believer in the benefits and superior quality of wild seafood. Now I am starting to see the light. The future of seafood depends on increased production of farmed seafood to meet the growing demands of consumers both here and worldwide. So while promoting farmed seafood we must try to insure that the fish is raised in a sustainable way, does no harm to the environment, and is a superior product. By the way it has been my experience that those aquaculturists that meet the first two requirements are very successful in making the end product taste great.

Indeed...it is amazing to me that even in this allegedly enlightened age, sustainability is not a major factor in everyone's consumptive behaviours...and yes, this includes our buying habits and general perspectives on what is "acceptable". I've been following the threads on tilapia on this forum and it amazes me how many comments/opinions shared are based on little to no information/research. I am proud to be part of a family based, aquaponics start up and philosophically I believe developing and implementing technology which will prevent the nutritional needs of today's human population from destroying...sometimes in an irreversible manner...species and environments which our children will inherit is both conscientious and an urgently needed paradigm shift.

All the negative references to farmed seafood makes me wonder if humanity as a whole has enough collective intelligence to survive in the long term...as the world population doubles in the next 50 years, how will we feed everyone in a sustainable manner? Or should we just fish like there's no tomorrow to satisfy the demand for "wild caught" seafood for everyone TODAY without concern for the future???

Will our cultural evolution of the personal entitlement soceity eventually be our undoing? I wonder...and I sincerely hope such is not the case.

RC