[Jonah523]

Top Chef, i think, is a good reality TV show... By that I mean that it seems, from what of it I've seen, that it's pretty even handed, and the judges criticisms, though straight to the point and sometimes harsh, are constructive. They're not just a bunch of expletives strung together, coupled with finger pointing. Long story short, I appreciate the civility.
I haven't really watched The Next Food Network Star, so I won't comment on that one.

[boar_d_laze]

With few exceptions, the contestants on the Next FoodNetwork Star are so hapless they make me feel sorry for them. What makes the show surreal is that man of the actual "Stars" who evaluate the contestants are just as hapless.

Top Chef has a lot of strong cooks. Each season seems to get stronger. The three finalists this year were all very good.

BDL

[shel]

Originally Posted by Jonah523

Top Chef, i think, is a good reality TV show... By that I mean that it seems, from what of it I've seen, that it's pretty even handed, and the judges criticisms, though straight to the point and sometimes harsh, are constructive. They're not just a bunch of expletives strung together, coupled with finger pointing. Long story short, I appreciate the civility.

What's your take on the potty-mouthed contestants? There are an awful lot of expletives deleted ...

scb

[ED BUCHANAN]

There is no question in my mind that Ramsay knows his onions. However having taught in a culinary school I can tell you that his approach would surely break down the morale of the student. You must give them confidence and a can do attitude. Alas if he pulled some of his nonsense off in a commercial kitchen he would be in front of the labor board on all kinds of charges of harassment, as would his employer, or would be stabbed buy another employee.

[Jonah523]

I'll give a little more slack to the contestants, but not much. When part of the contest is showing that you can be both an efficient leader as well as a good team player (sorry, I can't think of a less cliche way of putting that), I think it's important to show that you can express yourself in a way that befits an adult in a professional environment.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by Jonah523

I'll give a little more slack to the contestants, but not much. When part of the contest is showing that you can be both an efficient leader as well as a good team player (sorry, I can't think of a less cliche way of putting that), I think it's important to show that you can express yourself in a way that befits an adult in a professional environment.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but most pinche cooks in most pinche restaurant kitchens use a LOT of pinche profanity.

BDL

[Jonah523]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

Not to put too fine a point on it, but most pinche cooks in most pinche restaurant kitchens use a LOT of pinche profanity.

BDL

point taken

[ED BUCHANAN]

I agree with you 100%. In fact in my opinion the 2 that are capable of running any commercial kitchen are Mario and Emeril. The rest of them do well as actors and actresses and entertainers.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by ED BUCHANAN

[...] Alas if he pulled some of his nonsense off in a commercial kitchen he would be in front of the labor board on all kinds of charges of harassment, as would his employer, or would be stabbed buy another employee.

I'm not quite sure I know how to break this to you, but Ramsay worked his way up the brigade system and probably got his "gunnery sergeant" attitude from Marco Pierre White. He got two Michelin stars in his first head chef job at Aubergine, and three Michelin stars in his subsquent job, the eponymous (wait for it) Gordon Ramsay. When I say chef, I mean "chef" as in actually in the kitchen full time just like you. Also, FWIW, his personnel are by and large fanatically loyal. Not that there aren't some notable exceptions.

I enjoy a lot of what you have to offer in your posts, especially when you write about event and other large-group cooking. You're really well grounded in the basics and have a huge collection of great tricks to go with them. But I wonder where you get the "in front of the labor board on all kinds of charges of harassment, as would his employer," stuff. In what jurisdiction do you believe this would happen. Under what statutes? No offense, but the quasi-legal stuff that you bring up -- usually in the context of tort liability -- is consistently and wildly off the mark.

OTOH, "stabbed by an employee" makes perfect sense.

BDL

[cuisinier]

We can hit this ball back and forth all day long, but what it seems to boil down to is preference: some of us think it's OK for a chef to scream and rant and treat people like crap, while others don't...I happen to fall into the latter category. We like to think of our selves as professionals, but how professional are we when we stamp our feet like little babies (and what kind of example are we setting). I don't care how good of a cook a person is, if he/she screams all the time they've lost my vote. I'm referring to the type that do this consistently, like GR, because I know this is the real world and our jobs are difficult and everyone loses their temper every now and then. But I really can't believe that a person that has these tantrums all the time is having any fun at all. I cook for a living because I love it...I don't want to be pissed off at work all the time.

[renhoek]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

But I wonder where you get the "in front of the labor board on all kinds of charges of harassment, as would his employer," stuff. In what jurisdiction do you believe this would happen. Under what statutes? No offense, but the quasi-legal stuff that you bring up -- usually in the context of tort liability -- is consistently and wildly off the mark.

I can't speak for other countries, but in Australia Ed's comments would be spot on because there is legislation that addresses workplace bullying. Ramsay's behaviour would, in theory, see him done many times over.

The key word is "in theory", because it is up to the person/s involved to lodge a complaint. Imagine what might happen to your life at work if you called out your bullying boss

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by renhoek

I can't speak for other countries, but in Australia there is specific workplace bullying legislation. Ramsay's behaviour would, in theory, see him done many times over.

The key word is "in theory", because it is up to the person/s involved to lodge a complaint. Imagine what might happen to your life at work if you called out your bullying boss

Ahh, but I can speak for the US of A -- where we don't have "labor boards" in the sense that Ed seems to have meant.

I can also speak for the UK to the extent that the real Gordon Ramsay ran his real restaurants, and whatever trouble his @$$holiness got him into, he seems to have got out of it without undue bother. In fact, he's been involved in two rather famous legal actions which have nothing to do with his treatment of employees. In the first, an English newspaper, the Evening Standard, reported that Ramsay faked bad conditions at one restaurant featured in Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares. Ramsay sued in the UK for Libel and won. In the second, he was sued in the US for Defamation by a restaurant which appeared in the American version of the same show and the case was tossed for lack of merit. If there were Labor Board Complaints or any other Causes of Action which stuck, they don't seem to be publicized.

I'd love to read Oz's statutory scheme barring workplace bullying. Would you be so kind as to link me to a site?

As one attorney to another, I find it hard to believe that if Oz has the anti-bullying legislation it doesn't have legislation to protect the employee from retribution (including dismissal) for seeking the law's protection. Even in the US, we do that much. While I can't speak for every US jurisdiction, it's pretty much universal in Labor statutes as well as civil law that an employer can't punish an employee for her efforts to enforce her rights. As a practical matter this usually means the employee receives significant compensation, including back pay, after employment is terminated.

BDL

[cuisinier]

I think I remember hearing about something called osha and also something called a union.

[boar_d_laze]

Originally Posted by cuisinier

I think I remember hearing about something called osha and also something called a union.

OSHA is "Occupational Safety and Health Administration" and has nothing to do with nasty bosses. They're the people who want you to put up the little piso mojado signs.

Unions are somewhat limited in terms of what they can do, too. Moreover, only a small percentage of American kitchens are union; and in Florida (Chef Buchannan writes from Florida) -- a right to work state -- fewer still.

BDL

[renhoek]

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

I'd love to read Oz's statutory scheme barring workplace bullying.

Sure, who wouldn't! It depends what state you are in as to the piece(s) of legislation and also on the nature of the bullying as to whether a federal Act applies. Ramsay is looking at opening a restaurant in Melbourne, so I'll use Victoria as an example.

The piece of state legislation that would cover Ramsay-esque behavior is the Occupational Health and Safety Act 2004 (a section deals with protecting the mental health of employees). Depending on the type of bullying, an employee may also have recourse under the Equal Opportunity Act 1995 (state law, even something as basic as repeatedly abusing a cook by calling him a "fat lazy bastard" could trigger this Act) and the Workplace Relations Act 1996 (federal law, unfair dismissal as a result of bullying).

Grabbing a 120lb commis chefs by his neck and hurling him across the kitchen would also be actionable under criminal law (made for great viewing on Boiling Point, though ).

Complaints would be heard by a commission ("labour board") or Magistrate's Court, depending on their nature.

Originally Posted by boar_d_laze

As one attorney to another, I find it hard to believe that if Oz has the anti-bullying legislation it doesn't have legislation to protect the employee from retribution (including dismissal) for seeking the law's protection.

Employees are protected from *unlawful* types of retribution. Workplace bullying is a pretty touchy area and there's alot of issues in play, such as:

1. Bullying claims that don't involve physical abuse are difficult to investigate;

2. The employer can still engage in legal forms of retribution ("So you think I bully you? Alright...the walk-in needs cleaning and the 130lb bags of flour need moving from here to there...").

3. Australian culture. Anyone who couldn't handle Ramsay's behaviour would be seen as soft....and you don't ever, ever "tell on people". Only sooks and women would cry to the law about how chef called them a nasty name