Bacteria in foods....

[Isa]

Goes to show you can be too clean...

[cape chef]

Shroom,
I hope you can take something tangible out of this thread
cc

[shroomgirl]

I had it from the beginning, just wanted you guys to discuss it.

[Pastachef]

Isa, that's funny, and if I wouldn't get sued, a good idea DaveB, I like your post about normal environmental bacteria. It's somthing to think about. My daughter is all into that one. I cringe when the baby drops her pacifier on the floor and my daughter plops it right back into her mouth. :0) The saying when we were kids was, "Eat dirt beore you die." I guess we do, no matter hw hard we try not to.

[Kimmie]

by Anneke: As for antibacterial soaps etc, my husband the biochemist thinks they should be illegal for the reasons discussed in previous posts. I do think we've gone too far in many respects, and yet I still see cooks using the same instruments for raw and cooked meats, and other assorted unsafe practices.

My feeling, exactly. I second that one !!! and let me elaborate:

Antibacterial Soap is Useless -- Perhaps not a con job, but certainly not a solution either. You've seen the ads for hundreds of brands of antibacterial soaps, cleansers, skin creams and other products all claiming to kill bacteria. Our desire for cleanliness has become compulsive and that has fuelled a billion dollar business.

All of these products contain the compound triclosan but new research shows it may be virtually useless when it comes to killing potentially dangerous bacteria. Even worse, experts believe many of these products may create potent reservoirs for the spread of harmful microbes.

``Right now, the antibacterial obsession of the public is providing us with triclosan-containing products that kill off beneficial microorganisms, along with some potential pathogens--but leave some deadly pathogens in their wake,'' said Dr. Maura Meade of Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania. She presented her findings at the annual meeting of the American Society for Microbiology.

Triclosan is the active ingredient in over 700 products, including soaps, detergents, toothpaste and acne medications. And because it does not break down in extreme heat, triclosan is often mixed into fabrics and plastics used in both hospitals and homes.

However, a host of dangerous micro organisms long ago developed resistance to triclosan. Assessing the extent of this resistance, Meade's team introduced triclosan-resistant strains of three types of bacteria capable of causing blood infections, meningitis and other serious infections into various products containing triclosan.

The result? Colonies of all three bacteria ``survived longer than 16 weeks in popular household hand soaps, dishwashing liquids and acne treatments,'' according to the researchers. Products containing triclosan were also found to be no more effective at restraining the growth of E. coli bacteria than products without the compound. Some strains of E. coli can cause severe diarrhea and vomiting.

Worse, these types of bacteria did more than just survive on fabrics and plastics impregnated with triclosan--they thrived, forming resilient ``biofilms'' on product surfaces.

``Biofilms are responsible for a multitude of problems,'' Meade's team warns, ``from the formation of cavities and infections around artificial joints to the fouling of water pipes and the film on shower curtains.''

Meade said the solution to these problems is not the development of new, more powerful antibacterial compounds. In fact, she said, ``industry should stay away from antibacterial compounds altogether. They are unnecessary, don't actually improve the product, and can cause severe health and environmental problems.''

Instead, the public needs to remember that the vast majority of microbes are beneficial--aiding in digestion, breaking down waste and working hard to create everything from bread to yoghurt to wine.

``We cannot live without micro organisms--it is literally suicide to try to remove them from your environment,'' Meade said. Instead, she advises the average consumer to ``try to keep your immune system healthy by exercising and maintaining a healthy diet.

``These are the things that will keep you healthy--not triclosan or any other antibacterial product,'' she concludes.


Food for thought anyone?

[foodnfoto]

This thread goes to show how difficult it is to get some perspective on this issue and also how little the public knows about real and percieved dangers in food. A few observations:
1-Organic food has no fewer bug parts than commercially produced foods-probably even more.
2-Some bacteria are bad, some are good. Finding out which is which and controlling your own exposure is the responsibility of each individual.
3-Refusing to immunize your children will not protect them from food borne illnesses or allergies. It only puts their health at risk and those of their play- and schoolmates. While on this subject, I must rant a little here. I contracted measles as a child and was rendered temporarily blind for 3 days. Can you imagine how frightening it was for a 10 year old (and my parents!), not only to be very sick, but also blind?!!! The risk of this spreading to my siblings and schoolmates was huge. Why any parent would choose not to immunize against these diseases is completely beyond me.
4- People have become so seperated from the natural world that they fear it and percieve risks where there really are none. A little (maybe a lot!) of dirt is good for you.
Anyway, there are plenty of people who pay top dollar to smear mud all over themselves at a spa, yet are afraid of a bug hair in their breakfast cereal..go figure.

[Pete]

I have said it on these forums many times before. I believe that we are creating a race of "wimps". Why should our bodies continue to fight against foreign invaders when we have drugs to do that for us. We never give our bodies a chance to build up immunities to bacteria because we are overly cautious about gets into our body in the first place. I believe in being cautious, but there comes a point where it becomes ridiculous. As for the bug thing-we swallow bugs all the time. The average person will ingest 9 spiders in their lifetime while sleeping. How many bugs did you swallow while riding your bike as a kid?

[nancya]

Oh, no, Pete...there are some things I just don't want to even think about. I mean, I can cope with bacteria in my food and bug parts in my cereal ---- but please.......NO SPIDERS!!!!

[Anneke]

Found 2 little ones in my toasted O's yesterday. Wouldn't be so bad If I had been unconscious...

So how about them tape worms, hmm?

[shroomgirl]

Great guys~ let's do the microscopic instead of creepy crawlers and slitherers.....I think there is already a roach thread going.

There is a whole mind set out there about what is acceptable as food and what is not....antibiotic shot up animals or kill sites and procedures that are a nightmare.....but farmstead raw cheeses are not OK, antispetic foods that have expiration dates years from now....
Many of you that have read my shtuff for the past 15 monthes know where I stand. Food should be nurturing, alive, fun, creative....not sterile, dead and dull.

[Pete]

Just a question, a little off the the subject. Has anyone else ever noticed the use by date on a bottle of Evian water? What is up with that? LOL!!!!!

[shroomgirl]

Bizarre....dated water. Maybe the pastic particles melt after awhile and you end up with platisized (?) water much like the breast implants....weird day don't ask.

[kokopuffs]

I think that after some time, algae can develop in bottled water - especially if it's been exposed to sunlight.

[Pastachef]

I agree, Kokopuffs. I believe that standing water becomes stagnant, and that's why there is a stale date. It's probably because there is no chlorine in the water. No cross contamination in my knives at work, no mud packs either. LOL! And I guess I'm already bent too far in his direction, but I sanitize and sanitize! I wear gloves and hair restraints. In January I am taking classes at the University on sanitation. I am excited about this, because it's always been a huge part of my operation. I can then say "I KNOW this," instead of, "I read this."

[Kimmie]

Koko,

Can't have algae if it's dead.