"Swiss" Cheese that didn't quite make it

OregonYeti · #1 10-05-2008, 10:57 PM

I got some "Swiss cheese" today that's not at all what I expected. Granted, I can't expect much at a discount grocer, but usually I have gotten half-decent product from Grocery Outlet.

I know that in Switzerland, the size and quantity of the holes in the cheese is one measure of the quality. This looked almost like mozzarella, and I noticed that before I decided to buy it anyway. I would appreciate an explanation of what makes great Swiss cheese have those holes. Carbon dioxide, right? But beyond that, other characteristics that give "Swiss cheese" its texture and flavor?

OregonYeti · #2 10-05-2008, 11:13 PM

I should say it was more like a monterey jack in texture.

Anneke · #3 10-05-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonYeti

I would appreciate an explanation of what makes great Swiss cheese have those holes. Carbon dioxide, right? But beyond that, other characteristics that give "Swiss cheese" its texture and flavor?

Propionic acid. It's a biproduct of a culture that is present in many alpine cheeses. If ripened in warm enough environments, CO2/eyes will result, but if ripened in a colder room (Beaufort for example), you still get an alpine/swissy flavour, without the eyes.

siduri · #4 10-06-2008, 02:02 AM

What exactly is "swiss cheese" anyway? There must be loads of cheeses in switzerland, so which one is the one we call "swiss cheese"? Emmenthal? Gruyere? (is that even swiss?), or what?

Anneke · #5 10-06-2008, 08:58 AM

Swiss is 'American' for cheese with holes.

Gruyere is Swiss. French 'Gruyere' isn't as good. Although Gruyere is also a term referring to the size and style of cheese. eg: Gruyere de Beaufort.

ED BUCHANAN · #6 10-06-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri

What exactly is "swiss cheese" anyway? There must be loads of cheeses in switzerland, so which one is the one we call "swiss cheese"? Emmenthal? Gruyere? (is that even swiss?), or what?

Emmenthaler or the cheap one is aged only 4 monthes in traditional cellars it could come from anywhere in europe as it is not protected.
The better Emmenthaler is aged 14 monthes in Humid Caves.

Food clubs mostly handle the cheap one, it has no taste at all

siduri · #7 10-06-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED BUCHANAN

Emmenthaler or the cheap one is aged only 4 monthes in traditional cellars it could come from anywhere in europe as it is not protected.
The better Emmenthaler is aged 14 monthes in Humid Caves.

Food clubs mostly handle the cheap one, it has no taste at all

Ok, but the gruyere as i've ever seen it has no holes. Or are there different types?

Dillbert · #8 10-06-2008, 03:50 PM

/q
Emmenthaler or the cheap one is aged only 4 monthes in traditional cellars it could come from anywhere in europe as it is not protected.
The better Emmenthaler is aged 14 monthes in Humid Caves.
/uq

uhmmm, what country / region is home to "Humid Caves"?
so far as I've seen, the European "protectionism" issue revolves around specific names being associated with specific products which by tradition are produced in specific geographical regions. but that's just stupid me.

obviously there is a "good" and "genuine" place for cheese production known as "Humid Caves"? care to share?

OregonYeti · #9 10-06-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillbert

/q
Emmenthaler or the cheap one is aged only 4 monthes in traditional cellars it could come from anywhere in europe as it is not protected.
The better Emmenthaler is aged 14 monthes in Humid Caves.
/uq

uhmmm, what country / region is home to "Humid Caves"?
so far as I've seen, the European "protectionism" issue revolves around specific names being associated with specific products which by tradition are produced in specific geographical regions. but that's just stupid me.

obviously there is a "good" and "genuine" place for cheese production known as "Humid Caves"? care to share?

Humid caves are almost everywhere, of course

I believe that Ed was not referring to any caves officially certified as humid in a certain region of the world, but rather a method. Is that right, Ed? Hey I like to learn as much as I can here.

Anneke · #10 10-07-2008, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri

Ok, but the gruyere as i've ever seen it has no holes. Or are there different types?

The term "Swiss" doesn't usually refer to gruyere types of cheeses. Only Emmental style with holes.

Anneke · #11 10-07-2008, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillbert

/q
Emmenthaler or the cheap one is aged only 4 monthes in traditional cellars it could come from anywhere in europe as it is not protected.
The better Emmenthaler is aged 14 monthes in Humid Caves.
/uq

uhmmm, what country / region is home to "Humid Caves"?
so far as I've seen, the European "protectionism" issue revolves around specific names being associated with specific products which by tradition are produced in specific geographical regions. but that's just stupid me.

obviously there is a "good" and "genuine" place for cheese production known as "Humid Caves"? care to share?

Emmental IS a PDO cheese since 2004. Oddly, the French Emmental (de Savoie, and there's another one which escapes me now) got it's PDO status before the Swiss. So in theory, Emmental is a protected name.

And yes, there are humid caves everywhere. Most emmentals are not ripened in caves, but in temperature and humidity controlled rooms. Warm at first, then cooler for longer ripening, between 4 and 12 months.

Dillbert · #12 10-07-2008, 07:45 AM

well, found the web site with all the listings:
Agriculture - Quality Policy - (PDO/PGI) Geographical selection

am I reading that correctly in that it's the precise name:
Emmental de Savoie
and
Emmental français est-central
and
Allgäuer Emmentaler

which is protected?

i.e. a cheese may be labeled Emmental - but not Emmental de Savoie - unless it is really from there...

scanning those lists looks more like a trademark issue that for example the "champagne" nomenclature issue.

ED BUCHANAN · #13 10-07-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OregonYeti

Humid caves are almost everywhere, of course

I believe that Ed was not referring to any caves officially certified as humid in a certain region of the world, but rather a method. Is that right, Ed? Hey I like to learn as much as I can here.

You are correct, it is the process,when I lived in NY I had a humid cave in my unfinished basement, I grew Mushrooms.

ED BUCHANAN · #14 10-07-2008, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siduri

Ok, but the gruyere as i've ever seen it has no holes. Or are there different types?

I suggest you look again> Indeed some have holes, however they are much smaller then the holes of the Emmenthaler. In fact in some cases the cheese looks processed , and they look like air holes or broken bubbles. If you want a lot of questions answered about cheese, Ask Sid, I feel he is an expert.

Anneke · #15 10-07-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillbert

well, found the web site with all the listings:
Agriculture - Quality Policy - (PDO/PGI) Geographical selection

am I reading that correctly in that it's the precise name:
Emmental de Savoie
and
Emmental français est-central
and
Allgäuer Emmentaler

which is protected?

i.e. a cheese may be labeled Emmental - but not Emmental de Savoie - unless it is really from there...

scanning those lists looks more like a trademark issue that for example the "champagne" nomenclature issue.

They are all protected. That list is outdated by the way. Switzerland was a late addition to the list and should have about 6 or 7 cheeses, including Emmental, Vacherin Mont-d'Or, Etivaz and Sbrinz.