Appetizer Question...Open to All

[ShawtyCat]

Okay, this may seem like a dumb question but Im gonna ask anyway.

I can usually come up with a pretty good main dish with side and a dessert but can't figure out what appetizer should go with it. I mean, is there a certain way to do this? Do you pair a seafood appetizer with a meat main dish? When I think of a seafood appetizer my mind automatically says.....Pasta!

I can never figure out what to put before my poultry or meat main dish other than a veggie appetizer. Can I put seafood before meat? Or use a meat appetizer without it being overkill? I don't think other people have trouble with this. Am I just delving too deeply with this? Thinking about it too much maybe? I just don't want to be...god forbid...boring!

Very confused cook.

[marmalady]

Are you going to offer the meal as a 'fixed price' with aps included? If not, then just do some assorted aps and the customers will pick what they want. When I've done aps with catering, I don't necessarily think 'seafood with meat', but think of the main course - if it's heavy, I do a lighter appetizer; if it's a lighter meal, then I suggest an ap that's got a little more heft to it.

[Pongi]

Hmmm...THIS is a very stimulating question!
I have always thought that coupling the various courses of a meal is one of the funniest things of cooking. Are you talking about professional meals in a restaurant, or homecooking? I don't know the organizative problems you can have in a restaurant and can give just the opinion of someone who cooks for friends and relatives...but these are my thoughts.

As you know, I'm Italian, what means I have the great atout of innumerable pasta dishes that in Italy are not considered a main course, but usually served before it. So, the appetizers are usually quite light as they're supposed to be followed by a pasta course AND a main course with side AND the dessert (in the lighter meals the pasta course is substituted with a soup).

Generally speaking (but this is a personal opinion!) I never serve a fish appetizer or pasta dish if the main course is meat. If I'm planning to serve some fish, all the meal will be fishy! Probably, I'll not serve a "real fish" as appetizer, but some other swimming creatures like seafood or shellfish or octopus...not only as a pasta sauce but also a salad (with or without veggies), or stuffed and baked shellfish, or seafood croutons.

When I serve a meat main course I generally choose between two options: a "heavy" appetizer and a soup, or a "light" appetizer and a pasta dish. As for the pasta, if the main course is very heavy I choose a vegetarian pasta, if it's lighter I can also serve a pasta with meat sauce.

As for the appetizers...if you can find a good shop, what about a selection of special cheese and salumi, with good bread and focaccia and pickles and accompanying sauces (in example, a sweet/sour or sweet/piquant fruit relish)? This is the most typical Italian starter and has always a great success with everybody. Otherwise, croutons with veggies or patés; quiches and pies; stuffed vegetables.....

Pongi

[ShawtyCat]

Originally posted by Pongi

Generally speaking (but this is a personal opinion!) I never serve a fish appetizer or pasta dish if the main course is meat. If I'm planning to serve some fish, all the meal will be fishy! Probably, I'll not serve a "real fish" as appetizer, but some other swimming creatures like seafood or shellfish or octopus...not only as a pasta sauce but also a salad (with or without veggies), or stuffed and baked shellfish, or seafood croutons.

When I serve a meat main course I generally choose between two options: a "heavy" appetizer and a soup, or a "light" appetizer and a pasta dish. As for the pasta, if the main course is very heavy I choose a vegetarian pasta, if it's lighter I can also serve a pasta with meat sauce.

In our little diner the appetizers are listed on a separate page. I just want to serve something other that boring "soup or salad" with our specials and some entrees. I also believe that if my entree is meat do not serve seafood or fish. The taste will be all messed up. I think pasta, soup, salad or a light meat appetizer is appropriate. I did not know that pasta was considered more of a first course than main dish. The things you learn. You are giving me ideas.

Thanks
Jodi

[Suzanne]

Jodi -- remember that apps are a great place to "dove-tail" -- use the scraps and trimmings from prepping your other, more expensive items. And excess product from the previous day. Only edible bits, of course (I don't have to tell you that)! Since it's (I assume) included in the price of the dinner, you want to make it as economically as possible. A couple of examples: slice your leftover Italian/French bread into croutons and serve them topped with chopped tomatoes or other vegs or even beans as a "bruschetta"-type of item. Or a soup: puree of whatever veg you've got a lot of. Virtually no-cost apps!

I'm with the side that says "consider the weight of each course" AND the textures as well. I'd have something light before a heavier main, something crunchy before a soft-ish one. To me, a cheese app is always a little on the heavy side; but I could see it before a light fish main. And I think soup is almost always a good possibility -- unless the main is a soupy/stewy item with lots of liquid.

Besides, what's "boring" to us is "consistent and comfortable" to a LOT of other people!

[W.DeBord]

I couldn't agree more with Susannes last post. But if your looking for opinions I'll add my vote. In a diner (not a traditionally fancy restaurant) I really want a GREAT cup of soup. It's boring only when it's not really great tasting or when you use the same seasoning in every soup that you make... only changing the meats, veg. and starches. I don't know of any one who doesn't enjoy a good bowl of soup.

A appetizer is a really cool idea too and maybe if that was an option then you might get people hooked on something and they'll eventually order the ap with their pre-fix meal.

my 2 cents

P.S. Man, your place sounds wonderful. You obviously care so much. Where is your diner? Have you gotten any write-ups and such??

[W.DeBord]

I'm sorry about the mis-spell Suzanne....I just got my nails done... next thing is a brain touch up.

[ShawtyCat]

The diner was great before I got there Im just looking for ways to make it better. For the location we are in we should be getting way more customers than we have. None of our diners except for a select few seem to notice the overcooked shrimp & scallop dishes, the bland mashed potatoes, the greasy fried chicken fingers or the tough chicken or beef teriyaki.

Why do I notice all this stuff? I want our food to be fabulous. I want us to have more customers than this! We are popular, yes I know that. We have people coming from as far as England just to eat at our "fifties style diner". We've been in movies (Jersey Girls & Boys on the Side) and countless commercials (Tums, Charmin etc.) and photo shoots. Saturday Night Live was here a few weeks ago doing a spoof on sanitary napkins. Arrrgh! Im beginning to feel chained to my bed. Dumb bed rest. I wanna get back to cooking.

Here is a link to the website I designed and put up. Just remember that it is still under construction. Only click on the links to our menu, maybe I can update some of the pages for you. I have to delete the links to the gift shop since no one ever sees this page anyway. I haven't got around to printing new business cards yet.

The Bendix Diner - New Jersey

Oh well, Im still the Pastry Cook. I don't consider myself "chef".

[Suzanne]

Oh, Jodi, I'm in awe of you!!!!!!! The site looks incredibly great!! And truly, I am NOT extravagant with my praise. (But being the editor/etc. that I am, I do have a few comments on the wording of the menu, which I'll send as a PM later. )

There are diners and there are DINERS! Yours looks like the classic! So of course you want the best food you can have. The main thing, though, is WHAT DO YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT? If the majority of them are happy, the most important thing is to make what they like as good as it can be. You can try to become a destination, but most of your business could still be your current base -- and you really want to keep THEM happy.

At least your current (personal) situation gives you time to sit (lie?) back and just THINK about things to do.

Well, I'm rambling (probably the pre-dinner cocktails ) . But this is all so exciting!

[alexia]

If this is a 50's diner, gotta have a shrimp and a crab coctail with lemon, and tomato/horseradish sauce; grapefruit with a 1/2 cherry in the middle. Doesn't matter what comes next (meat, fish, chicken, whatever) if you start with the shrimp or crab.

[ShawtyCat]

Well.....I just got out of bed and went to the diner today. ( Don't worry...I came back home and am back in bed. )

Sometimes I wonder why I bother talking to our line cooks. I was explaining how more efficient and better flavored our Chicken Teriyaki would be if we pre-cooked (blanched) the veggies and precooked, cubed, portioned and refrigerated the chicken during the morning shift. That way it could be used for the chicken teriyaki, chicken broccoli and chicken with alfredo sauce. I was told that doing all that prep work was way too much trouble. It was like talking to a brick wall. Like the time I dared to suggest that maybe they were overcooking the shrimp a tad too much. Do you cook your shrimp for 10 MINUTES??? (I guess he likes the food to have the texture of SHOE LEATHER!) Even my MIL has problems talking to these guys and she owns the place!

My hubby says that the way the line cooks operate is to wait until you do it a few times, watch how you do it, and then suddenly they come up with a "brilliant" idea. Well....you get the drift. Okay, I believe that he knows these guys better than I do. Especially since they have that "chauvanistic male" mentalitiy (Im just the lil woman, what the heck do I know) and all.

Suzanne,

Thanks for the compliment regarding the website. Im looking forward to the critique. Even I have issues with the site that I am working on. Wish I could show you the take out menu I created. Do you have Adobe Photoshop??

Jodi

PS

To answer your question about what our customers want. Grits for one. I get a lot of that from the truckers. The older folk love the fact that I have brought back their childhood desserts and if I don't know how to make it on that visit, they will get it on the second. Nearly all of the customers hate the "lemon butter sauce" that our cook puts on the fish or seafood. Its really just a pond of clarified butter with a squeeze of lemon juice. Our cook wouldn't listen so now I personally cook all this one guy's meals. Grilld Halibut with Herbed butter and vegetables tastes oh so much better don't you think? So it all comes down to personalizing my dishes to suit my customers. I had one lady go on and on about how good my salad was, then tip my five bucks for it. Our cook also does the salads and doesn't cut anything into bite sized pieces and then drowns it in salad dressing. Lord Help Me. The weird thing about our customers is that they love to see our family at the diner. They say it makes them feel comfortable.

[cape chef]

Originally posted by ShawtyCat
( My hubby says that the way the line cooks operate is to wait until you do it a few times, watch how you do it, and then suddenly they come up with a "brilliant" idea. Well....you get the drift. Okay, I believe that he knows these guys better than I do. Especially since they have that stereotypical "spanish male" mentalitiy (Im just the lil woman, what the heck do I know) and all.

Please "think" before you post.
Thank you
cc

[ShawtyCat]

CC.

I did say "stereotypical". Being part spanish I can't go insulting myself you know. That just wouldn't do. But I do understand your point and it is a point well taken.

Jodi

Hey Shawty,

Your post got me reminiscing about some of the family style restaurants I loved to frequent before I developed food allergies. (Dining out now is something of a challenge.)

One place was a little restaurant that served lunch and dinner only on weekdays. The dinner menu for each day of the week never changed, and Thursday was the night I loved to go. They served a wonderful, thick, sweet corn chowder and a tangy ham steak, and dessert was strawberry rhubarb pie. Each dinner featured a homemade soup, main course and homemade dessert. I was very sad when they closed up shop.

Another favorite place was primarily a pizza parlor that was owned and run by a famiy of Greek origin. I went every Friday night and had an enormous feta cheese salad and the crunchiest fried chicken I've ever eaten. They saved a table for me and the family members took turns sitting and chatting with me while I ate.

Both restaurants were homey, relaxed and reliable. I think they were the closest I've ever come to having a home-cooked meal in a restaurant. Eating 'comfort food' in a truly comfortable restaurant where people know you by name is pretty special. Even if the shrimp *is* a little overcooked!

[ShawtyCat]

Sounds like you'd fit right in at our little place. Everyone is like family and I like to ask our customers what they are allergic to so I can customize the meal to them. Ive made a separate batch of brownies for a customer because he was allergic to nuts.

Our place is the only place where the customers are so comfortable that you'd actually find a poker game going on in the back. As long as they eat!