defrosting chicken for stock?

[phoebe]

Hi Guys,

Here's another of my "cooking 101" type questions : Is it necessary/advisable to defrost the chicken necks and backs I've got in the freezer before using them to make stock?

[Suzanne]

Depends. If you want to make a white chicken stock, no. Put them in the cold water and gently bring the whole thing up to a boil, then immediately turn down to a simmer. As it heats up, keep checking and skimming and breaking apart the thawing pieces.

If you want to make a brown chicken stock, though, you will have to thaw the chix first. If you don't, and try to brown the pieces from the frozen state, you'll end up with a gray, steamed mess.

Three things you have to remember, whatever you do: if you want to thaw the chix, do it in the fridge where it will stay out of the danger zone. Start with cold water. And don't let the stock boil -- cook it gently. These last two will keep the scum and loose proteins from breaking up back into the stock and making it cloudy.

PS: Happy Belated Birthday!

[Nicko]

Phoebe,

There is an excellent article on ChefTalk on the preparation of Stock complete with photos. Take a look when you get a moment.

Stock

[cape chef]

Phoebe,

One quick note.

I also break a boil,then drain and rinse the bones to remove scum.

Then procceed with your stock
cc

[Nicko]

Cape,

Do you do the rinse every time you make chicken stock or just with frozen product? I have always done what you have suggested when using frozen product but not thawed.

[cape chef]

Nicko,

I do this with all high protien animal stocks.

There's a great deal of blood and inpurities in and on the bones,this step (frozen or thawed) makes a big difference in the clarity of color as well as the purity of flavor.

[phoebe]

Thank you all for your help!
I just took a roux-based and reduction sauce workshop yesterday at the New School of Cooking and found how much else I've been doing wrong!
I've partially covered my chicken stock, so my 3 hours of simmering probably didn't result in a product anywhere near what an uncovered stock should be.
I also learned that when I was so proud of myself for roasting beef bones to make my own brown stock for onion soup, I probably just browned the bits of meat on the bones but didn't really let them stay in the oven long enough to brown the bones. And I certainly didn't let the stock simmer for 6 hours as I just learned I should have.
And I have made what I have called sauces with what I thought was stock when I should have used the demi-glace I, of course, have never made.
I'm hoping you all get a laugh out of this, a topic you all spent months (and years afterward) learning about, working at, and perfecting.

[Suzanne]

I can't imagine laughing. Truly. There is always so much to learn. Besides, you weren't doing anything wrong, you were just doing the right things too little. And now you'll take what you learned and move on to the next level.

Did they give you some hints on how to brown bones without burning them? That's the hard part for me.

[phoebe]

Thanks Suzanne for not laughing. I did learn a lot, which was great.
The chef--Carol Cotner Thompson--said that burning was indeed a problem. She said that if you're working with a crappy stove--like mine--you need to take up to 3 hours and roast at a lower temp (375-400). But if you're working with a great professional stove, you could get the job done a lot faster at 475 or even higher without the burning problem. And to always work with a thick roasting pan. Of course I have an additional problem in that our rental home doesn't even have an overhead vent for the stove, so we have to close all the doors and open all the windows when we use the ovens at all to keep the smoke alarms from going off and scaring the cat.

[chefboy2160]

I have worked in kitchens without enough oven space to roast your beef bones but I did have a Braiser ( tilt skillet ) . I just put my bones in this at about 350 and when there carmelized good I add my cold water , mirepoix and sachet de pieces and start simmering . it works just fine but I am glad I read this thread as
cape chef has realy put another eye opener out there for us .
Thanks cc , Doug.............................................. ...............