Slow Food Attitude

Devotay · #1 03-13-2005, 05:04 PM

Cape Chef asked me to move the conversation over here, so here's the new thread.

Phatch had a problem with the Slow Food movement - here's what he said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch

Plus a HUGE dose of elitism and snobbery.

Phil, I have been wrestling with this misconception a great deal, and trying to figure out its roots. Perhaps you can help me.

My dictionary says that elite means: "the choice or most carefully selected part of a group, as in a society of profession." (and also a kind of typewriter). Is there something wrong with a group of people who believe that the Delaware Bay Oyster, or Hand-Parched Wild Rice, or the Suncrest Peach (among hundreds of other foods) are items that are worth preserving? What about the way of life of the Uzbek goat herder or the Tibetan yak's milk cheese maker or a sumatran coffee grower? Is there something wrong with wanting these things to continue to exist? Because that's what Slow Food does.

The dictionary also says that (besides being a shoemaker) a snob is "a person who attaches great importance to wealth, social position, etc., having contempt for and keeping aloof from those whom he considers his inferiors, often one admiring, imitating, and seeking to associate with those whom he considers his superiors" ALSO "A person who regards himself as better than others in some (specified) way and behaves undemocratically."

Aside from its ability to feed and educate my children, I attach no great importance to wealth, and Slow Food as an organization doesn't have enough money to do so. As for the "contempt" and "aloof” parts of the definition, as well as the "admiring and imitating" parts, we certainly don't do that with regard to people. If we do it with regard to food (and we do), it is only because we see those foods as under threat of extinction from the onslaught of the industrialization and standardization of foods and flavor, and wish to protect them.

I see no snobbery whatsoever in protecting farmers and artisans and the food they produce. I see no snobbery at all in teaching elementary school children to taste foods consciously and conscientiously. I see no snobbery in drawing closer connections between a community and its local farmers. This is what Slow Food does.

If we throw some big, fancy-schmansy dinners along the way, what’s wrong with that? It’s what keeps most of the people on this forum (including me) gainfully employed.

Perhaps you meant, through insinuation or otherwise, that we are "intellectuals." If so, then to that I plead guilty on behalf of the movement, and myself, since I have never understood the negative connotations that some in our society have attached to that word. I for one would be proud to have the word applied to me, if it can be, because it means “of or done by the intellect; appealing to the intellect; requiring or using intelligence; having or showing a high degree of intelligence.” Slow Food sounds pretty smart to me.

cape chef · #2 03-13-2005, 05:26 PM

http://slowfood.com/eng/sf_ita_mondo/sf_usa.lasso

Sounds admirable to me, and I had my first heritage turkey last November. I wonder who I should thank for that?

Devotay · #3 03-13-2005, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cape chef

http://slowfood.com/eng/sf_ita_mondo/sf_usa.lasso

Sounds admirable to me, and I had my first heritage turkey last November. I wonder who I should thank for that?

You should thank the farmer who raised it, but I've no doubt you did that

. How 'bout your lucky stars? Maybe it's for another thread, but how'd you prepare it? (I smoked one and deep fried the other this past year)

Thanks for posting our international website there, CC. As long as we're mentioning the websites, get a load of these!

Slow Food USA
The Slow Food Foundation for Biodiversity
The University of Gastronomic Sciences
Terra Madre
Terra Madre Forum

Also, at The Slow Food Forum, there is a List of all the local convivium websites

phatch · #4 03-13-2005, 05:45 PM

Note that my primary complaint was politics. My feelings about "elitism and snobbery" stem from that.

We all know my politics and economics diverge strongly from most of you here.

If Slow Food were to get out of politics, I would be much more interested in them and supportive of them.

Phil

Devotay · #5 03-13-2005, 06:03 PM

OK, well, this is interesting. Allowing for the fact that, especially in this country, having an opinion about just about anything can & will be construed as political, I'd like to know how you see Slow Food as involved in politics.

The organization is non-partisan, has never backed any candidate for office, and has no politicians as members (that I know of, but there are 12,000 of us in the US and 80,000 worldwide, so, hard to be sure).

We almost never have politicians speak to us at our gatherings, in fact now it's even against our bylaws. Before it was, we did have a presidential candidate speak to our Natioanl Convention, but that's because he was the Governor of the state where we met.

Slow Food USA has never lobbied congress or spoken to a committee. Slow Food in Europe has done so for the EU, but only at the EU's invitation.

So yes, we have some very strong opinons which I alluded to in an earlier post, but we are not involved in politics except on the very lowest, grass-roots & personal levels.

On the Slow Food Forum, you will see posts suggesting that people should back this or that legislation (I even post some myself), but it is clearly never the official position of the movement, any more than my doing so here would imply that such was the position of CC and everybody who runs this marvelous forum.

phatch · #6 03-13-2005, 06:30 PM

The Forum was what convinced me I wanted no part of it.

Phil

phatch · #7 03-13-2005, 06:58 PM

I'm kind of surprised to see that my opinions became the point when Glenn's were driving the other thread.

Phil

Devotay · #8 03-13-2005, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch

The Forum was what convinced me I wanted no part of it.

Phil

Wow, really? Please quote the stuff that "convinced you."

And as for why you "opinions became the point when Glenn's were driving the other thread," it's just because you were more succinct. I'm interested in continuing this discussion with both of you.

phatch · #9 03-14-2005, 09:11 AM

I really don't have the time nor the inclination to go look it all up again particularly because it doesn't seem likely to be a productive discussion.

I'd post what I didn't like, others would defend it. He said, she said.

I have no agenda to bring Slow Food down. I just don't want to be a part of what it is.

Phil

Devotay · #10 03-14-2005, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch

I really don't have the time nor the inclination to go look it all up again particularly because it doesn't seem likely to be a productive discussion.

Sorry you feel that way, but in the original thread (http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=13095 ) where I got your quote, you didn't say anything about what the politics that bothered you were, save for agreeing with what Food Junkie said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Food Junkie

Is the Slow Food thing to liberal? (In a stereotypical Rush Limbaugh kinda way)
Is it too fascist? (I mean they do suggest there are certain ways of eating and types of food that are preferable over others)
Maybe it's too European? (It was started by Italians...who have also been notoriously Fascist in the past...)
Too granola? (Like wow man...big greedy corporate agribusiness is killing Mother Earth)
Too snobbish? (Pietro Tatrizzola's family has been making coppa in the same fashion in their little village for 5 generations...why would anyone buy Boarhead instead of Pietro?)
Too eco-friendly? (Save the Truffle!)
Too political? (I'm gonna lose my lunch if I have to hear one more word about big farm subsidies or deforestation due to cattle grazing...)

I think that was all pretty tongue-in-cheek, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch

I'd post what I didn't like, others would defend it. He said, she said.

Well, yeah, I guess, but isn't that a discussion? What are these forums for? I sure can't make you post, but I would like to understand your thoughts and opinions

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatch

I have no agenda to bring Slow Food down. I just don't want to be a part of what it is.

Didn't think you had an "agenda." I'm merely trying to get a grasp of what you and others have found "elitist," "snobby," or "too political" about the movement.

phatch · #11 03-14-2005, 09:47 AM

I'd post what I didn't like, others would defend it. He said, she said.

Well, yeah, I guess, but isn't that a discussion?

It's a discussion of sorts. I just don't see it going anywhere I want to go.

Devotay · #12 03-14-2005, 09:57 AM

Well, OK, don't then I guess. You are not the only person I was asking, I just used your comments to make a point. I would like for anyone/everyone to jump in on either side and help me understand the point of view you and others hold.

Can anyone out there repond to the points I made to start the thread?

Glenn · #13 03-18-2005, 04:22 PM

Devotay,
After a bit more reading of Slow Food, I'd have to say I basically agree with the sentiments of phatch. Although many of the goals of Slow Food are admirable, I don't want to be part of it. There are too many examples of politics and elitism in its forums.
As phatch says, I'm not going to go reciting them, as it will lead nowhere but a futile round of "He said... She said". Perhaps our definition of elitism doesn't fit your dictionary definiton of elitism you posted earlier, but whatever you want to call it, others including phatch and I, find it not to our liking, however it is defined. That's my opinion. You can take it, or leave it. If you were only looking for opinions to agree with yours, I wouldn't have replied.

Good luck with forum. I wish it well, and it's fine for some people. It's just not for me.

-- best wishes,

Glenn

Devotay · #14 03-18-2005, 04:40 PM

Well, I've understood from the start that Slow Food is not to your liking or to Phil's. I understand you find it elitist and snobby. What I don't understand is the how's and why's of finding it elitist and snobby, and that's what I'm trying to figure out. Not to "convert" either of you, believe me, I'm not the prostheletizing type. I'm just trying to gain a handle on what makes the organization appear elitist & snobby to you.

See what I mean? You wouldn't want those labels attached to an organization you're affiliated with, would you? And if you believed them to be erroneous, then wouldn't you try to root out the causes of that false impression? That's all I'm trying to do.

Glenn · #15 03-18-2005, 04:59 PM

Devotay,
I understand your question. I'm just not sure I can give an answer. It's one of those things where I know it when I see it, but can't necessarily define it. If I think of a better way to express myself, I'll post it here in the future.

It's kind of like that old saying from a judge years ago. "I don't have a definition for obscenity, but I know it when I see it." (No, I'm not saying your forum is obscene. I'm just saying it's hard for me to give a definition of elitism in the way I find it.)

But, whatever it is, more people than phatch and I find it that way. Also I came to that opinion before reading phatch's review of it. I developed the same sentiments independent of phatch or others. Then I found out that some (many?) others feel the same. If I can better put a finger on it, I'll let you know.

Best luck with the forum.

Glenn