[BevReview Steve]

Next month Timothy McVeigh is scheduled to be put to death for his part in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City that killed over 160 people. In a recently-published book he has freely admitted his own guilt and even defends what he did. This would appear to be a good test case for the debate over capital punishment. The question might be put this way: Are there crimes so heinous that the only civilized response is for the state to say (acting through the judicial process) that the persons involved should be put to death?

[kokopuffs]

Why should the American population be burdened with his incarceration at the cost of $30,000, yes, thirty thousand dollars, per year? He is no longer of any use to society. Neither are many prisoners sentenced to life in prison without parole. They cost too much to maintain. DEATH TO THEM. We could take that $30,000 and apply it to more proper ends like medicare prescriptions for the elderly or invest in trains and public transportation.

Having grown up in the California desert near and at the time that Charlie Manson did his thing, I am fed up with the criminal justice system. Three hots and a cot, that's what it is. To see Charlie and family up for parole every few years sickens me. We have a very filthy society due to our lenient criminal justice system. So if you disagree, then take that one right on the chin.

Thank God for the NRA to protect my gun rights. There's nothing like being awoken, in the desert, 7 miles off the highway, at my campsite, at 4 a.m. in the morning by a carload of speedfreaks. They'll do anything to get anything. Thank you Colt 45. NRA forever. Death to criminals.

Wake up, people, the wild west is still alive and well.



[ April 26, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

[Pooh]

Yep! All for it, he killed so many innocent people.

However, it's too easy to get guns, never mind military arsenal, in your country, no wonder you have such problems, it's out of control.

I understand that in some situations you may need protection.

This being said, the NRA is not protecting your gun rights since no one wants to take your rights in the first place. It's mostly self-serving.

[kokopuffs]

As I've said in another forum, Pooh, the problems stems from kids getting inadequate attention. It's due either to single parent households or a negligent pair of parents.

Growing up in the 60's, Pooh, we all owned firearms for hunting and plinking. We settled disagreements verbally and occasionally with fists. The thought of settling things at the end of a gun barrel NEVER entered our pointed little haids. It's the current generation of kids who are really violent and abuse the firearms.

The NRA can easily be seen as self serving; but, when some legislator wants to curtail my rights to own even a handgun...well, you've seen our cowboy society of criminals.

[coolJ]

Well he was responsible for the deaths of over 160 people and he admits his guilt and doesn't have any remorse, why should'nt he die ?.

[Pooh]

Manson is pure evil, Anneke!

The comment written earlier about how the expense involved in keeping him alive warrants his execution is good enough for me too.

while we are at it we should kill all the old people in homes too... that costs too much

dont forget the retarded kids.. why bother keeping them around... too expensive

[kokopuffs]

Jose, were talkin' criminals in this forum. Don't confuse them with decent citizens.

[Mezzaluna]

No, he should not be killed. I believe that you should not hasten ANYONE'S death, nor delay it if it's inevitable (end stage terminal disease, for instance).

[Anneke]

The comment written earlier about how the expense involved in keeping him alive warrants his execution is good enough for me too. However, it also makes for a counterargument that has more weight (ie: putting a dollar figure on any life is wrong). The other side of this debate is to question to goal of incarceration. Is it punishment or reform? In North America, it has always been reform, though the results have been mitigated. The question is, can one reform someone like McVeigh? To say 'no' is to confirm the existence of pure evil. Is anyone really 'pure evil'?

Personally, I say 'Punish his sorry -ss and fry him!'

[Nicko]

Well all I can say is that a pretty rough statement Jose! Retarded children and old people don't have a choice. Timothy Mcveigh had choices and he made some rather terrible ones. He put his own beliefs above the well being of others and murdered hundreds of innocent people.

[kokopuffs]

In a way I agree with Mezzaluna. Let's not execute Timothy. Just as the victims' families are suffering for the rest of their lives, perhaps he should suffer, too - slowly. Execution is too good for him. How about barbecueing him alive, and very slowly while being basted with hot chili oil. As you all can tell, I'm a law, order, and corporal punishment type of guy. An eye for an eye, that's all.

[foodnfoto]

What does it say about us as a society that we are so anxious and righteous we can easily, and without regret, take a person's life? Are any of you who are so ready to see this young man die willing to inject him yourself? Are you willing to continue your life afterward, knowing you someone's blood on your hands? What satisfaction can that possibly bring you?

Why give this insignificant guy power to influence like-minded individuals by elevating him and his views to the staus of martyr?
As far as expense goes, statistics show it is actually more clostly to state and federal resources to execute a prisoner than to encarcerate them over many years.
I suggest to anyone who is so ready to kill this guy, first read Dead Man Walking by sister Helen Prejean. Your eyes will be opened to the long term effects of capital punishment on our society at large and the individuals affected by crime. Until capital punishment can be administered equitably throughout all our society's racial and social strata, it should not be used as a form of punishment at all.
One other note---
I think it's really interesting (read: the ultimate in hypocrisy) that those who are so against abortion are the first ones to get step line to execute prisoners.

Do right, turn your cheek, be nice, others will be, too.

[Anneke]

Originally posted by foodnfoto:
[QB]I think it's really interesting (read: the ultimate in hypocrisy) that those who are so against abortion are the first ones to get step line to execute prisoners.QB]

With all due respect, how can one possibly compare the life of an innocent foetus to that of a hardened criminal???? A foetus deserves every right in the world; a killer should have his removed. I'm very sorry, but I find this comparison very upsetting...

[kokopuffs]

As you can all tell, this thread pushes my button.

In any other civilized country, he would already have been executed or be suffering in a dank dungeon. Let me tell you, a bullet in the head costs only about 30 cents. How much does an injection cost including personnel? Keep the lawyers out of it. Justice is where the families are allowed to exercise it as opposed to some government driven institution.

Having dissected human cadavers for a year, I'd have no problem performing the execution myself.